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	Comments on: Christian Physician Assistants group issues statement	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:32:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Timothy,

  Not that it&#039;s any consolation but the kind of censorship you cited is across the board. I still vividly remember when we tried to do a meeting called &quot;Jesus Didn&#039;t Come to Condemn&quot;...we planned to evangelize but also to confront other attenders with their own homophobic attitudes. I lined up an ad with our local paper, even specifying for our $$ spent where I&#039;d like the ad to appear. They buried it in a corner of the back page! I actually went through the paper twice before I found it! (This was years ago and the other POV but it demonstrates that there are still plenty of people out there who have redefined &#039;free speech&#039; and what&#039;s &#039;appropriate for the community&#039;.)



On the opposite doorframe, I have another quote by Abraham Lincoln: &quot;Whatever you are be a good one.&quot; Sometimes I get a good chuckle out of the &#039;whatever&#039; but mostly I just try to live by the advice. (LOL! I&#039;m wanting to write to Alan Chambers re the radio ad promising &#039;sudden radical and complete change&#039; but I&#039;m afraid I can be an extreme bitch when I&#039;m all fired up...I need a cooling off period before I can become

a good bitch.) Hope that word didn&#039;t offend anybody...in this case, it is the most accurate word for the situation...

  Was &#039;sudden&#039; really the first word or have I inadvertently substituted another? If they said &#039;sudden&#039;, then I&#039;m not any closer to cooling down! ARRRGGGGHHH!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,</p>
<p>  Not that it&#8217;s any consolation but the kind of censorship you cited is across the board. I still vividly remember when we tried to do a meeting called &#8220;Jesus Didn&#8217;t Come to Condemn&#8221;&#8230;we planned to evangelize but also to confront other attenders with their own homophobic attitudes. I lined up an ad with our local paper, even specifying for our $$ spent where I&#8217;d like the ad to appear. They buried it in a corner of the back page! I actually went through the paper twice before I found it! (This was years ago and the other POV but it demonstrates that there are still plenty of people out there who have redefined &#8216;free speech&#8217; and what&#8217;s &#8216;appropriate for the community&#8217;.)</p>
<p>On the opposite doorframe, I have another quote by Abraham Lincoln: &#8220;Whatever you are be a good one.&#8221; Sometimes I get a good chuckle out of the &#8216;whatever&#8217; but mostly I just try to live by the advice. (LOL! I&#8217;m wanting to write to Alan Chambers re the radio ad promising &#8216;sudden radical and complete change&#8217; but I&#8217;m afraid I can be an extreme bitch when I&#8217;m all fired up&#8230;I need a cooling off period before I can become</p>
<p>a good bitch.) Hope that word didn&#8217;t offend anybody&#8230;in this case, it is the most accurate word for the situation&#8230;</p>
<p>  Was &#8216;sudden&#8217; really the first word or have I inadvertently substituted another? If they said &#8216;sudden&#8217;, then I&#8217;m not any closer to cooling down! ARRRGGGGHHH!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eddy,



I too love the Gracie quote.  But it is a bit ironic in this context.



&quot;God is still speaking&quot; is currently the motto of the United Church of Christ and is used in connection with their efforts to openly support gay men and women and their relationships within the church.  It is based on the Gracie comma quote.  It is this program that was not allowed to advertise on network television that they welcomed gay people because, as CBS said, showing gay people attending church is &quot;controversial&quot; and &quot;and the fact the Executive Branch has recently proposed a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, this spot is unacceptable for broadcast on the [CBS and UPN] networks.&quot;  (apparantly showing gay people attending church runs contrary to marriage laws).  Incidentally, overwheming UCC voted in 2005 affirming &quot;equal marriage rights for couples regardless of gender.&quot;  It is left up to the individual churches whether to perform marriage ceremonies but many do - and a few have gone so far as to say that the will not perform opposite-sex ceremonies until such time as same-sex couples have the same rights.  Those wacky Congregationalist/Pilgrims.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddy,</p>
<p>I too love the Gracie quote.  But it is a bit ironic in this context.</p>
<p>&#8220;God is still speaking&#8221; is currently the motto of the United Church of Christ and is used in connection with their efforts to openly support gay men and women and their relationships within the church.  It is based on the Gracie comma quote.  It is this program that was not allowed to advertise on network television that they welcomed gay people because, as CBS said, showing gay people attending church is &#8220;controversial&#8221; and &#8220;and the fact the Executive Branch has recently proposed a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, this spot is unacceptable for broadcast on the [CBS and UPN] networks.&#8221;  (apparantly showing gay people attending church runs contrary to marriage laws).  Incidentally, overwheming UCC voted in 2005 affirming &#8220;equal marriage rights for couples regardless of gender.&#8221;  It is left up to the individual churches whether to perform marriage ceremonies but many do &#8211; and a few have gone so far as to say that the will not perform opposite-sex ceremonies until such time as same-sex couples have the same rights.  Those wacky Congregationalist/Pilgrims.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[TIA alert:  &quot;When [the guy with the homosexual problem] begins to trust men, his homosexuality disappears.&quot;  J. Nicolosi.



That&#039;s amazing stuff!   Why didn&#039;t I think of that?  I wonder... do I have to trust all men, or just Joe and his buddies (Cameron, Berger, Schoenewolf, et all)?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TIA alert:  &#8220;When [the guy with the homosexual problem] begins to trust men, his homosexuality disappears.&#8221;  J. Nicolosi.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s amazing stuff!   Why didn&#8217;t I think of that?  I wonder&#8230; do I have to trust all men, or just Joe and his buddies (Cameron, Berger, Schoenewolf, et all)?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5302</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5302</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LOL, I love Karaoke!  For three years after leaving EXODUS, I was a host at a gay Karaoke bar.  Too bad there wasn&#039;t some sort of conversion therapy for some of the singers!  Ouch!!!  Made my ears bleed, I swear.  Now, I still do karaoke sometimes,  but usually limit my singing to church choir and Master Chorale.



Regarding the search for 100%, back in my EXODUS days, I did not expect that.  I didn&#039;t really want that.  I really would have settled for just a little heterosexual attraction towards my wife.  Any straight arousal would do...  We both believed that gay feelings would diminish over time and that God would bless our marriage by creating at least some &quot;normal&quot; heterosexual attraction -- if only toward her.   Sadly, that never happened.  She deserved more.



Now, I am happy being gay.  The search for 100% is in response to misleadiing &quot;hype&quot; (your word, Eddy) that would suggest that change is &quot;sudden, radical and/or complete.&quot;  Radical, maybe?  But not suuden.  Not complete.   Meanwhile, after decades of prayer and study, I have reconciled my sexuality and my sprituality -- using the Bible as the foundation for my sexual identity.  For me, they are no longer in conflict.  I am looking for 100% change because I already know that those who are already BISEXUAL to some degree can become straighter bisexuals.  That&#039;s not for me.  I don&#039;t want attractions to both.



I am not cut out for celibacy.  I have a very strong (and I beleiev God-given) need for emotional, romantic, sexual and spiritual bonding with one special man  -- a spouse, a life-partner  -- in a monogamous, committed, Christian relationship .  I found that in Gary -- loving and being loved on ALL those important levels...  And I have been blessed to find it twice since his death.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, I love Karaoke!  For three years after leaving EXODUS, I was a host at a gay Karaoke bar.  Too bad there wasn&#8217;t some sort of conversion therapy for some of the singers!  Ouch!!!  Made my ears bleed, I swear.  Now, I still do karaoke sometimes,  but usually limit my singing to church choir and Master Chorale.</p>
<p>Regarding the search for 100%, back in my EXODUS days, I did not expect that.  I didn&#8217;t really want that.  I really would have settled for just a little heterosexual attraction towards my wife.  Any straight arousal would do&#8230;  We both believed that gay feelings would diminish over time and that God would bless our marriage by creating at least some &#8220;normal&#8221; heterosexual attraction &#8212; if only toward her.   Sadly, that never happened.  She deserved more.</p>
<p>Now, I am happy being gay.  The search for 100% is in response to misleadiing &#8220;hype&#8221; (your word, Eddy) that would suggest that change is &#8220;sudden, radical and/or complete.&#8221;  Radical, maybe?  But not suuden.  Not complete.   Meanwhile, after decades of prayer and study, I have reconciled my sexuality and my sprituality &#8212; using the Bible as the foundation for my sexual identity.  For me, they are no longer in conflict.  I am looking for 100% change because I already know that those who are already BISEXUAL to some degree can become straighter bisexuals.  That&#8217;s not for me.  I don&#8217;t want attractions to both.</p>
<p>I am not cut out for celibacy.  I have a very strong (and I beleiev God-given) need for emotional, romantic, sexual and spiritual bonding with one special man  &#8212; a spouse, a life-partner  &#8212; in a monogamous, committed, Christian relationship .  I found that in Gary &#8212; loving and being loved on ALL those important levels&#8230;  And I have been blessed to find it twice since his death.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/05/30/christian-physician-assistants-group-issued-statement/#comment-5301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My own belief is that you will likely NEVER see that 100% change that you speak of. Even in my ministry days I said I expected that most would continue to have homosexual feelings/urges/temptations but that they would diminish in frequency and intensity. (Yeah, I know age does that too...but I&#039;m talking about 30 years ago!) I said quite emphatically that the Bible never promised the absence of temptation but rather that &#039;with every temptation there would be a way of escape&#039;. I recognized early on that people who were expecting 100% were getting tripped up. The expectation of 100% didn&#039;t come from psychology OR the Bible but rather from an odd mixture of charismatic belief and homophobia. (As charismatics, they believed God could and would do just about anything and they couldn&#039;t imagine God could let a person continue to have those &#039;yukky&#039; feelings.)

Some people in my church were pushing me towards marriage in a matter of months; my pastor advised that IF a relationship with a woman was part of God&#039;s plan for me, it would likely be several years before I would be ready for that &#039;journey&#039;. (Although I heeded his advice I do recall that as a &#039;maverick charismatic&#039;, I did think &#039;his God was too small&#039; and that, if I was obedient enough, God would one day whap me over the head with heterosexual feelings and urges.)



Since neither God nor psychology expects 100%, I&#039;m puzzled why it&#039;s such an important search for you? I do think there are a number of 90% to 95%&#039;ers out there. And I believe there are many others who are in a &#039;celibacy of unknown duration&#039;. They are experiencing personal and spiritual growth but nothing much measureable on a heterosexuality scale. I also believe that an individuals level of gay-identification factors in here. Those who were more bi-sexual to begin with have less to contend with and a shorter road to travel.



Glad the Gracie quote brought some smiles. I sang &quot;Just Dropped In to See What Condition My Condition Was In&quot; at karaoke Friday night and later realized that this blog is what triggered me to remember the song in the first place.



So far, karaoke is as heterosexual as I get. I can make the ladies swoon with Town Without Pity or a Neil Diamond tune. I am getting more comfortable with flirtation but I&#039;m also expecting it to lead nowhere. What&#039;s ironic is that karaoke is also about as homosexual as I get, as well. (Some songs just bring out the &#039;inner camp&#039;.)  A few people know &#039;my whole story&#039;; many know that I&#039;m not straight and, by default, assume gay. That&#039;s fine with me. It&#039;s one way that I still get to make a dent against homophobic attitudes and to encourage acceptance. And, of course, there are many others who I don&#039;t know or who don&#039;t really care what a person&#039;s sexuality is. (The place where I sing gets the most unusual mix of people...truly eclectic. Gays and lesbians can sometimes make up to 30 percent of the mix.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own belief is that you will likely NEVER see that 100% change that you speak of. Even in my ministry days I said I expected that most would continue to have homosexual feelings/urges/temptations but that they would diminish in frequency and intensity. (Yeah, I know age does that too&#8230;but I&#8217;m talking about 30 years ago!) I said quite emphatically that the Bible never promised the absence of temptation but rather that &#8216;with every temptation there would be a way of escape&#8217;. I recognized early on that people who were expecting 100% were getting tripped up. The expectation of 100% didn&#8217;t come from psychology OR the Bible but rather from an odd mixture of charismatic belief and homophobia. (As charismatics, they believed God could and would do just about anything and they couldn&#8217;t imagine God could let a person continue to have those &#8216;yukky&#8217; feelings.)</p>
<p>Some people in my church were pushing me towards marriage in a matter of months; my pastor advised that IF a relationship with a woman was part of God&#8217;s plan for me, it would likely be several years before I would be ready for that &#8216;journey&#8217;. (Although I heeded his advice I do recall that as a &#8216;maverick charismatic&#8217;, I did think &#8216;his God was too small&#8217; and that, if I was obedient enough, God would one day whap me over the head with heterosexual feelings and urges.)</p>
<p>Since neither God nor psychology expects 100%, I&#8217;m puzzled why it&#8217;s such an important search for you? I do think there are a number of 90% to 95%&#8217;ers out there. And I believe there are many others who are in a &#8216;celibacy of unknown duration&#8217;. They are experiencing personal and spiritual growth but nothing much measureable on a heterosexuality scale. I also believe that an individuals level of gay-identification factors in here. Those who were more bi-sexual to begin with have less to contend with and a shorter road to travel.</p>
<p>Glad the Gracie quote brought some smiles. I sang &#8220;Just Dropped In to See What Condition My Condition Was In&#8221; at karaoke Friday night and later realized that this blog is what triggered me to remember the song in the first place.</p>
<p>So far, karaoke is as heterosexual as I get. I can make the ladies swoon with Town Without Pity or a Neil Diamond tune. I am getting more comfortable with flirtation but I&#8217;m also expecting it to lead nowhere. What&#8217;s ironic is that karaoke is also about as homosexual as I get, as well. (Some songs just bring out the &#8216;inner camp&#8217;.)  A few people know &#8216;my whole story&#8217;; many know that I&#8217;m not straight and, by default, assume gay. That&#8217;s fine with me. It&#8217;s one way that I still get to make a dent against homophobic attitudes and to encourage acceptance. And, of course, there are many others who I don&#8217;t know or who don&#8217;t really care what a person&#8217;s sexuality is. (The place where I sing gets the most unusual mix of people&#8230;truly eclectic. Gays and lesbians can sometimes make up to 30 percent of the mix.)</p>
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