Comments on: Physician Assistants group backs compromise stance on reparative therapy

By: Mary

Mary — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:57:53 +0000

Thanks Michael. Sorry Ivan. So my question goes to Jayhawk – where do you recieve the information that most ex gays remain celibate??

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:18:10 +0000

Jayhawk commented that, based on his experience, the “majority of ex-gay people will remain celibate.” I have to tell you that has not been my experierince — as least not with ex-gay men. Many of them continued to “fall and repent” — that’s not celibate. Almost every ex-gay man I have spoken to has admitted privately that they continue to masturbate to gay fantasies (something straight men don’t do). Would they be considered celibate?

Some (like me) married but eventually had gay affairs. Some claimed to be completely celibate — even from masturbation, but these were few and far between Some who were already bisexual to some degree were able to limit themselves to sex only with their wives — and were very happy with this. I don’t think its fair to say that the majority remained stricly “celibate”. The majority of ex-gays I have met admit that they still struggle with some sort of same sex behavior.

By: Ivan

Ivan — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:08:53 +0000

Mary,

I did mention something about celibacy, but I certainly didn’t mention that ex-gays are usually celibate. It could be you meant respond to something Jayhawk said? If not, cut and paste what I said and I’ll explain what I meant. Sorry about the confusion.

By: Ivan

Ivan — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:06:28 +0000

Jayhawk,

What about the people who have no fears or misconceptions about celibacy and marriage, but who only want marriage (a large majority), and who see that marriage is a part of their set of values (and I disagree that marriage isn’t a good reason to be in RT — I believe it very much is)? Do you think just sending them to therapy to learn to live and to adjust to celibate lives is a sincere, ethical and sensitive answer? Do you think there’s more that can be done? Are there any other options? Do we just leave it at celibacy??

You seem to leave marriage as the very last option, as if we’d avoid it at all costs, until we can no longer. Don’t we have a duty to somehow try to give these struggling people the best chance they can live the kind of life they’d like to live, this being for many, heterosexual marriage and a family? If you don’t know how to do this, why isn’t someone proposing to work on this or to come up with a better answer.

No one knew how to cure cancer (I’m not comparing the two), so they went off and did research to work out how… They wanted to cure it, so some went to work out how to make that a reality.

By: David Roberts

David Roberts — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:13:41 +0000

I am disinclined to discuss this subject with you anymore. I have my reasons, and they are not your reasons.

And the door closes again. As I said in the original thread at XGW, if you don’t want to share, then say so. But it casts a shadow on your credibility that you are unwilling to share such basic information, especially since your claims go far beyond what even Exodus suggests.

We have to expect some degree of transparency when discussing such issues, or else how do we avoid debating someone over lies assumed to be fact? I could go to PFOX, claim to be ex-gay, and argue issues for any number of reasons. Without being candid about some things, how could they tell I was not being honest?

These are serious issues, and what people read here and at XGW and other blogs could make a significant difference to their thinking. Your reasons for pulling back every time the questions turn to you disturbs me, and it should anyone interested in the truth and integrity of such discussions.