Some (like me) married but eventually had gay affairs. Some claimed to be completely celibate — even from masturbation, but these were few and far between Some who were already bisexual to some degree were able to limit themselves to sex only with their wives — and were very happy with this. I don’t think its fair to say that the majority remained stricly “celibate”. The majority of ex-gays I have met admit that they still struggle with some sort of same sex behavior.

I did mention something about celibacy, but I certainly didn’t mention that ex-gays are usually celibate. It could be you meant respond to something Jayhawk said? If not, cut and paste what I said and I’ll explain what I meant. Sorry about the confusion.

What about the people who have no fears or misconceptions about celibacy and marriage, but who only want marriage (a large majority), and who see that marriage is a part of their set of values (and I disagree that marriage isn’t a good reason to be in RT — I believe it very much is)? Do you think just sending them to therapy to learn to live and to adjust to celibate lives is a sincere, ethical and sensitive answer? Do you think there’s more that can be done? Are there any other options? Do we just leave it at celibacy??

You seem to leave marriage as the very last option, as if we’d avoid it at all costs, until we can no longer. Don’t we have a duty to somehow try to give these struggling people the best chance they can live the kind of life they’d like to live, this being for many, heterosexual marriage and a family? If you don’t know how to do this, why isn’t someone proposing to work on this or to come up with a better answer.

No one knew how to cure cancer (I’m not comparing the two), so they went off and did research to work out how… They wanted to cure it, so some went to work out how to make that a reality.

I am disinclined to discuss this subject with you anymore. I have my reasons, and they are not your reasons.

And the door closes again. As I said in the original thread at XGW, if you don’t want to share, then say so. But it casts a shadow on your credibility that you are unwilling to share such basic information, especially since your claims go far beyond what even Exodus suggests.

We have to expect some degree of transparency when discussing such issues, or else how do we avoid debating someone over lies assumed to be fact? I could go to PFOX, claim to be ex-gay, and argue issues for any number of reasons. Without being candid about some things, how could they tell I was not being honest?

These are serious issues, and what people read here and at XGW and other blogs could make a significant difference to their thinking. Your reasons for pulling back every time the questions turn to you disturbs me, and it should anyone interested in the truth and integrity of such discussions.

I think you may have addressed that question to me – the one about celibacy. The fact that a majority of ex-gay people will remain celibate comes in part from talking to many of them, and in part from the low success rate of ex-gay men being able to establish genuine attraction to women. – it is very small

Let’s not confuse getting married and having kids with being straight – or even ex-gay. Gay people have been getting married and having kids since the beginning for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t gay.

I did not say e-mail me privately. I said I would provide AN e-mail with a word doc.

To write answer to those questions takes more time and thought. I want the answers to be clear and free of offensive language ( as this is a very sensitive issue) Yes, I do work – and writing in these blogs do not always require in depth personal revelation. So for example, this is an easy post to write. (FYI – I have been asked by others to write my story or share it and it is taking longer than expected)

David Roberts, I am disinclined to discuss this subject with you anymore. I have my reasons, and they are not your reasons.

I acknowldge it and apologize for my diatribes. They come from a lifetime of watching gays be mistreated (often at the hands of the church) and my own history of haaving been targeted for abuse and violence. They were recently sparked by the revelation of Cameron’s hatred towards gays. I know YOU guys (those who regulary post here) are not the bully but are motivated by genuine compassian for GLBT people — even though we may strongly disagree on what is best for them.

Eddy, I don’t believe I HAVE taken your words out of context, but I know it bothers you that I keep repeating them, so I will quit provoking you (grin). I pray that the change movement someday DUMPS the confusing labels altogether! It would be so much simpler if those we used to call “ex-gay” would simply TELL their stories, describe their change and define terms if the terms don’t (as Alan Chambers put it) “accurately describe what the change process is all about…”

Clarity and simplicity of language would do SO much to propel the “change” discsusion forward. And I would personally feel less vexed. (grin) Take care everyone. Again, my apologies for getting so hot under the collar.

I did not answer question in an XGW because it would have taken up far too much room.

First, no one constrained the amount of space you could use to answer the questions, so that’s just not a factor. Second, as an example, when you were asked a simple question about the era in which you graduated high school (to clarify one of those inconstancies) you replied

“For the sake of my family I don’t like to give out specifics like where, who, when. Sorry.”

Then you requested that if anyone wanted to know more, they could email you privately. At that point you said you were also too busy at work to comment further and you started commenting over here more.

No one is persecuting you Mary, but contrary to most commenters (from all over the spectrum) at XGW, I don’t have much reason to trust you. You started out over there sounding like a member of PFOX, and morphed into the gay man’s best friend. When people making serious decisions about their lives read that you “woke up one day and weren’t gay,” I am partly responsible if I don’t call attention to the fact that you have not been candid in your support of such an extraordinary claim.

Again, you know where the thread is, and if you want to be more forthcoming you may reply to it.

I am curious, where do you get your information that most ex gay people will live celibate lives??