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	Comments on: Only the gay die young? Part 3 &#8211; Kirk Cameron responds to Morten Frisch	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:05:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4693</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4693</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nick C,



&quot;The answer to health problems in the African American community is to help people learn healthy behaviors, which starts with encouraging people to accept who they are with pride and reject a negative self-image fostered by society. Why should the solution to health problems within the gay community be any different?&quot;



My sense is that Cameron wants the &quot;shorter lifespan&quot; issue to be inherently associated with gay identity and sexual behavior.  He lists these other issues as contributing to shorter lifespans, but people other than gays and lesbians engage in them.  So the argument is self-evident for longer lifespans for people who decide not to smoke, drive recklessly, drink and drug makes sense regardless of sexual identity...



Sexual behavior is a unique component that can be farreted out as well, separating and examining various sexual behaviors for heterosexuals and homosexuals which are safe or high risk; I believe sexual promiscuity for heterosexual women poses higher health risks than for heterosexual men. And so on.



If Cameron makes the argument as I describe...he weakens the correlation of &quot;shorter lifespan&quot; with gay identity and undermines his argument.  He needs to group all those behaviors under a gay identity (and hide the fact that this is the case) in order to persuade his supporters that gay identity is inherently &quot;against nature.&quot;



Still thinking about your natural law argument, the Catholic Church and gay identity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick C,</p>
<p>&#8220;The answer to health problems in the African American community is to help people learn healthy behaviors, which starts with encouraging people to accept who they are with pride and reject a negative self-image fostered by society. Why should the solution to health problems within the gay community be any different?&#8221;</p>
<p>My sense is that Cameron wants the &#8220;shorter lifespan&#8221; issue to be inherently associated with gay identity and sexual behavior.  He lists these other issues as contributing to shorter lifespans, but people other than gays and lesbians engage in them.  So the argument is self-evident for longer lifespans for people who decide not to smoke, drive recklessly, drink and drug makes sense regardless of sexual identity&#8230;</p>
<p>Sexual behavior is a unique component that can be farreted out as well, separating and examining various sexual behaviors for heterosexuals and homosexuals which are safe or high risk; I believe sexual promiscuity for heterosexual women poses higher health risks than for heterosexual men. And so on.</p>
<p>If Cameron makes the argument as I describe&#8230;he weakens the correlation of &#8220;shorter lifespan&#8221; with gay identity and undermines his argument.  He needs to group all those behaviors under a gay identity (and hide the fact that this is the case) in order to persuade his supporters that gay identity is inherently &#8220;against nature.&#8221;</p>
<p>Still thinking about your natural law argument, the Catholic Church and gay identity.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4692</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4692</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t find the Washington Post obits for May 2003. But I suspect it would be similar to the one I found on an entertainment sight.  Would this obituary be place in the &quot;gay&quot; or &quot;straight&quot; category?:



&lt;i&gt;JOHN CARLYLE Died May 27, 2003



Stage, film and TV actor John Carlyle died at age 72. Mr. Carlyle made his TV debut at age 20 in a &quot;Hallmark Hall of Fame&quot; production. Mr. Carlyleâ€™s film credits include Ken Russellâ€™s &quot;Whore,&quot; the TV mini-series &quot;Rich Man, Poor Man,&quot; &quot;The Spirit of St. Louis,&quot; &quot;The Monster that Challenged the World&quot; and a scene that was cut from the Judy Garland/James Mason version of &quot;A Star is Born.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;



From this limited info one might say &quot;straight&quot;, but Carlyle&#039;s very amusing autobiography &lt;b&gt;Under the Rainbow&lt;/b&gt; tells quite another tale.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t find the Washington Post obits for May 2003. But I suspect it would be similar to the one I found on an entertainment sight.  Would this obituary be place in the &#8220;gay&#8221; or &#8220;straight&#8221; category?:</p>
<p><i>JOHN CARLYLE Died May 27, 2003</p>
<p>Stage, film and TV actor John Carlyle died at age 72. Mr. Carlyle made his TV debut at age 20 in a &#8220;Hallmark Hall of Fame&#8221; production. Mr. Carlyleâ€™s film credits include Ken Russellâ€™s &#8220;Whore,&#8221; the TV mini-series &#8220;Rich Man, Poor Man,&#8221; &#8220;The Spirit of St. Louis,&#8221; &#8220;The Monster that Challenged the World&#8221; and a scene that was cut from the Judy Garland/James Mason version of &#8220;A Star is Born.&#8221; </i></p>
<p>From this limited info one might say &#8220;straight&#8221;, but Carlyle&#8217;s very amusing autobiography <b>Under the Rainbow</b> tells quite another tale.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Erica J		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4691</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erica J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4691</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I find the obituary comment a little creepy.  I don&#039;t particularly expect that when writing obituaries for my family members (for any publication), that I&#039;ll include descriptions of their bedroom behavior.



Just imagine:

&quot;Grandma Mary died after 92 happy years.  Beloved mother and grandmother to many, she obviously enjoyed sex because she had nine kids.&quot;

&quot;Cousin Jim passed away tragically this week.  He is survived by three children by two different wives, and also mourned by his mistress of seven years.&quot;

&quot;Uncle Rich died today at 79.  We&#039;re pretty sure he was gay because he never got married.&quot;

Bleargh!



Yet Cameron expects that every single secret of somebody&#039;s life will be revealed upon their death -- not only revealed, but published in an obituary?  Obits are supposed to be celebrations of life and accomplishments, not gossip columns where you see what skeletons can be dragged from the closet (no pun intended).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the obituary comment a little creepy.  I don&#8217;t particularly expect that when writing obituaries for my family members (for any publication), that I&#8217;ll include descriptions of their bedroom behavior.</p>
<p>Just imagine:</p>
<p>&#8220;Grandma Mary died after 92 happy years.  Beloved mother and grandmother to many, she obviously enjoyed sex because she had nine kids.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Cousin Jim passed away tragically this week.  He is survived by three children by two different wives, and also mourned by his mistress of seven years.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Uncle Rich died today at 79.  We&#8217;re pretty sure he was gay because he never got married.&#8221;</p>
<p>Bleargh!</p>
<p>Yet Cameron expects that every single secret of somebody&#8217;s life will be revealed upon their death &#8212; not only revealed, but published in an obituary?  Obits are supposed to be celebrations of life and accomplishments, not gossip columns where you see what skeletons can be dragged from the closet (no pun intended).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4690</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4690</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[NickC,



If I can add to your list of contributing factors, there is still the problem with health care providers and their ignorance/presumptions about care to same-sex attracted persons.



There&#039;s something about the doctor/patient relationship that can make it difficult to be fully candid.  I&#039;m not a very closeted person, but I found it uncomfortable to correct my doctor&#039;s assumption that I was straight.  And my doctor practices at Cedars Sinai across the street from West Hollywood.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NickC,</p>
<p>If I can add to your list of contributing factors, there is still the problem with health care providers and their ignorance/presumptions about care to same-sex attracted persons.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s something about the doctor/patient relationship that can make it difficult to be fully candid.  I&#8217;m not a very closeted person, but I found it uncomfortable to correct my doctor&#8217;s assumption that I was straight.  And my doctor practices at Cedars Sinai across the street from West Hollywood.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NickC		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4689</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NickC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/04/21/only-the-gay-die-young-part-3-kirk-cameron-responds-to-morten-frisch/#comment-4689</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Many minority populations in this country have high rates of bad health and premature death.  I did a quick google search on the question:  Do African Americans die earlier than whites?  Got over a million hits, with the first in the list an article from a CDC publications, nothing that &quot;For many health conditions, non-Hispanic blacks bear a disproportionate burden of disease, injury, death, and disability.&quot;



Does this mean that African Americans should all seek to become ex-blacks?  Do you help young black people escape unhealthy patterns by heaping them with guilt and shame for their very race?



Obviously, the health problems of the African American community are not inherent, inescapable consequences of having a certain color of skin. The CDC article notes that &quot;Multiple factors contribute to racial/ethnic health disparities, including socioeconomic factors (e.g., education, employment, and income), lifestyle behaviors (e.g., physical activity and alcohol intake), social environment (e.g., educational and economic opportunities, racial/ethnic discrimination, and neighborhood and work conditions), and access to preventive health-care services (e.g., cancer screening and vaccination).



To whatever degree it may be true that gay people suffer a higher rate of health problems than the general population, we can also find a complex set of contributing factors.  These include lifestyle behaviors that are acknowledged problems within segments of the gay community (smoking, alcohol, drug use, promiscuity).  But they also include the social barriers gay people face--discrimination, rejection by family and church, legal impediments to forming families, and marginalization of our long term relationships.



The answer to health problems in the African American community is to help people learn healthy behaviors, which starts with encouraging people to accept who they are with pride and reject a negative self-image fostered by society.  Why should the solution to health problems within the gay community be any different?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many minority populations in this country have high rates of bad health and premature death.  I did a quick google search on the question:  Do African Americans die earlier than whites?  Got over a million hits, with the first in the list an article from a CDC publications, nothing that &#8220;For many health conditions, non-Hispanic blacks bear a disproportionate burden of disease, injury, death, and disability.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does this mean that African Americans should all seek to become ex-blacks?  Do you help young black people escape unhealthy patterns by heaping them with guilt and shame for their very race?</p>
<p>Obviously, the health problems of the African American community are not inherent, inescapable consequences of having a certain color of skin. The CDC article notes that &#8220;Multiple factors contribute to racial/ethnic health disparities, including socioeconomic factors (e.g., education, employment, and income), lifestyle behaviors (e.g., physical activity and alcohol intake), social environment (e.g., educational and economic opportunities, racial/ethnic discrimination, and neighborhood and work conditions), and access to preventive health-care services (e.g., cancer screening and vaccination).</p>
<p>To whatever degree it may be true that gay people suffer a higher rate of health problems than the general population, we can also find a complex set of contributing factors.  These include lifestyle behaviors that are acknowledged problems within segments of the gay community (smoking, alcohol, drug use, promiscuity).  But they also include the social barriers gay people face&#8211;discrimination, rejection by family and church, legal impediments to forming families, and marginalization of our long term relationships.</p>
<p>The answer to health problems in the African American community is to help people learn healthy behaviors, which starts with encouraging people to accept who they are with pride and reject a negative self-image fostered by society.  Why should the solution to health problems within the gay community be any different?</p>
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