Glad you enjoyed the thread. 😎

Tim

Stupid gay sheep links everywhere and most of them are old. There are great articles out there if I could find them. HOWEVER here is one mention of curing gay sheep.

OHSU experimenter Charles Roselli is drugging pregnant sheep to prevent the actions of hormones in their fetuses’ brains and cutting open the brains of rams he calls “male-oriented” (homosexual) in an attempt to find the hormonal mechanisms behind homosexual tendencies so that they can subsequently be changed. Roselli’s cohort, Frederick Stormshak of OSU, has surgically installed an estrogen device in rams’ bodies in an effort to alter “gay sheep’s” sexual preferences and make them heterosexual.

http://www.mysocalledgaylife.com/usa/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2876&Itemid=6

I don’t how accurate that particular story is but I don’t think it is super far off. I have read in various places that their research has accomplished three major firsts.

A) They created a blood test for pregnant sheep that can predict the sexuality of offspring.

B) They have strong evidence that a small nucleus in the hypothalamus is responsible for homo/hetero orientation. Remember the barrage of crap LeVay took for suggesting that?

C) They have “cured” fully developed gay sheep with brain surgery.

Somebody might be able to help us out with a better link. I will look again as well.

Very funny comments 🙂

I think I may need a reference on that one. I thought the exact opposite was the case.

Anyway the upshot might be that women end up prefering formally gay men to straight truck driver types by a wide margin. Straight men will rue the day they allowed this research to progress.

Hmmm. Ex-Gays as the man of choice.

Lets say that homosexual men really are more sensitive, intelligent and better looking. Lets also say that 20 or 30 years from now scientists use stem cells or some other exotic technology to increase the size of the hypothalamus thus making gay men straight. It could happen, Roselli says he can cure gay sheep right now. Anyway the upshot might be that women end up prefering formally gay men to straight truck driver types by a wide margin. Straight men will rue the day they allowed this research to progress. 😎

I have to agree with you. I have noticed over my lifetime that homosexuals seem to have higher average intelligence. Another peculiarity seems to be appearance. When I was a kid (1980s) the stereotype was that guys who were good looking were gay. I found it interesting that researchers somewhere tested this hypothesis and determined that gay men really do have more attractive facial features than straight men. I think it will all come back to the way hormones are sent or received prenatally.

I can appreciate that you have a “safe bet” and really at this point that’s all any of us can have. I too doubt that all homosexuality will ever be traced to some “gay gene” – in fact, I think that can pretty conclusively be eliminated as an “every example every time” causation, though I don’t rule it out as possibly the road for some folks – no one yet knows.

I too think that the most likely explanation for a large segment of gay men is that there is some genetic basis activated by some environmental trigger. I suspect that the trigger is most likely pre-natal – and if not, it is at a very very young age and is probably not succeptable to parenting methods. Again, we are all guessing at this point.

Perhaps diet will matter at some point or perhaps hormone therapy will as well. I don’t get all frantic and scream “genocide” at the notion of ensuring heterosexuality in future generations. But I do think that humanity and civilization would be much worse off without gay people in it. If we removed the contributions of same-sex attracted persons from history, the world would be a very different place, and not at all to the better. And I’m not sure the world really wants to do without the next Da Vinci, Newton, or Turing.

Perhaps – and I’m just thinking aloud here – the benefit that Mother Nature selected for was not solely increased fertility. Perhaps there is something about the genetic/ hormonal/ environmental soup that results in homosexuality that also occasionally results in genius. Historically, “the greats” include far more same-sex attracted persons than one should expect from raw percentages.

This is not to suggest that gay people are, on average, any more intelligent than straights (except for me, of course). But perhaps the production of the occasional genius would be adequate motivation for Mom Nature to keep that soup around.

If scientists discover a “gay” gene that made people exclusively desire sex that can’t produce offspring it would be an amazing find. No common fitness reducing condition has ever been traced back to a genetic trigger. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Scientists make amazing discoveries every day. Personally, I think the safe bet is some sort of environmental trigger. I don’t mean that gay men aren’t getting enough hugs from their fathers. 😎 It is probably some sort of biological trigger IMHO.

I believe Roselli can determine if a sheep will be born gay with a blood test during pregnancy. It is some sort of hormone test. Unless the reason for this irregularity is obvious the debate on why this happens is going to be Looooooooong. I believe the worry about hormone patches is crazy. A simple change in diet, supplements or activity might accomplish the same thing. Women take folic acid right now. The list of things that pregnant women take is going to get longer as we learn more about the body.

Ok… I don’t think of fitness in terms of the individual, but instead of a breeding population. In this world of today we exalt the individual (human) and extended families are more often not considered important. Thus people seem to view evolution in terms of their own personal success. I don’t; nor do I believe that is how it works at all.

I have a eall large extended family based in first cousins and more distant cousins. Much of that comes from blood-aunts who were very fertile and produced a greater number of female offspring. I even have some 2rd cousins, once removed, who share as many as 9 of 16 of my great-grandparents (and are thus also 3rd cousins, etc..).

That rather fertile family is the population which is spreading my genes around… and quite liberally. I don’t have to reproduce, my mother’s Xs are still out there (a heck of a lot) and so is my dad’s X&Y. True, my particular mix will disappear. But I can be assured that my extended familiy is very strong.

Ahh, but I said Ms. Nature (those close to her call her Mom) might design those with no desire to breed, not those with no desire for sex. 😛

What you wrote makes sense except for 1 thing.

Virtually all healthy men have a very strong sex drive. This is not a new phenomenon. 😎 Societies have been successfully organized under many different systems but Mother Nature has never made any effort to curb man’s almost limitless desire for sex. Any gene that would cause men to feel differently was made extinct by our ancestors long ago.

Thank God for morals, we’d live in chaos without them.