You seem to have difficulty understanding how anyone who is gay/lesbian could have a happy life…so I thought I would put myself out there and share mine.

I am a young academic with a tenure-track position at a liberal arts school in the northeast…I have a solid job, partner benefits, and live with a beautiful young professional woman who works in patent law. I couldn’t be more in love. We’ve been smitten with each other since meeting, and have a wonderful life – we work out every morning together at the gym, often bike to work into the city, are members of a local church, have a dog and a place in an amazing loft – and spend our leisure time traveling both here and abroad.

I live a life absolutely blessed. Ivan, I can only wish you were this fortunate…and pray that everyone can experience the life that I have…even if just for a moment. I thank God for my health, my life, my love, and for making me exactly who I am.

Questions Ivan?

I think your last post, while poignant, may have missed my point. Anyhow, I don’t think it’s worth it for me to go over again.

Well, I wouldn’t quite put it that way. I know lots of straight men who are are not particularly well-adjusted psychologically. What I mean is that I am happy with my work, my family, my lover, my hobbies, my church. Somedays are rougher than others, but that’s true of everyone. Sexual orientation does not determine one’s happiness or level of psychological adjustment.

All I mean is that I no longer feel bad about being gay. I accept that I am, just as a straight man might accept that he is straight.

What offends me and angers me is NOT that someone might question whether or not I am “truly happy” — as I have said, I have my highs and my lows just as every human being does. What DOES offend and anger me are questions about “cause” from people who believe my sexuality is some sort of a disease that needs to be cured, or that I am demon possessed or not as “healthy” or “moral” as straights.

I angers me that I have been fired from two jobs — simply for being gay. It angers me that I was beaten and stabbed in the back my gang members who hated “faggots”. It angers me that these same gang members murdered my best friend for being gay. It offends me when a bullhorn toting “Christian” yells obscenities at my Mom as we walked into the Municipal Auditorium to hear the Gay Men’s Chorus do a Christmas concert. But you asking me if I am “truly happy” — that I can live with.

On the other hand, when my daughter was in Kindergarten, she was already telling me about boys she thought were “cute” or “nice”. She didn’t “misinterpret her feelings as sexual” any more than I did. We both just felt what we felt. My attractions have remained constant over time and so have hers. I’m gay. She’s straight — and I will be the proud Dad who gets to give her away to a wonderful Christian man this April.

I appreciate your comments about how we ought to talk more scientifically…how you were relentless with Ivan about the word ‘satisfactory’. Now, it’s your turn.

I’ve read at least 3 references to sexual direction before the age of reason (about yourself, about your daughter). I want clarification.

What was the sexual nature of your feelings at age 5 or 6 that you brought up in another recent thread? What was the sexual nature of your daughters feelings at age 6 or 7 that you also used to try to make that point? I’m not trying to get explicit here but I do believe you are inserting a controversial and unproven premise into the discussions. Therefore, I need clarification re the sexual direction feelings that you attribute to yourself and your daughter at those ages.

How can I be sure that you both don’t fit into my theory of childhood feelings and attractions being reinterpreted as sexual? (I believe they are both RE-intepreted and MIS-interpreted.) Please elaborate for the benefit of our scientific understanding.

In the more than 30 years since we started EXODUS, neither have I. I think such a person may actually exist — but it’s kinda like trying to get a good picture of Bigfoot.

I don’t mean I need clarification. I mean I accept you are satisfied, if you say you are, and tht as a gay man, you’re psychologically well-adjusted like any heterosexual man. I also suspect you’d be offended if I tried to work out if you were *really* happy as a gay man. If I began to nitpick your words, to find out if you were *genuinely* and *really* happy, you’d be offended and angry. As you said in your own post, perhaps when you say you’re a satisfied gay man livign a gay life, perhaps your example is applicable here: ““I’m satisfied, Doc, just leave the railroad spike in my foot and give me something for the pain…”” You see, what you say doens’t need to be clear. I don’t need to clarify your happiness. I can’t possibly clarify your emotions, if you feel them to be true. They are yours, and you own them. Don’t forget your own comment to Dr. Throckmorton where you got annoyed that anyone who asked the question “What causes homosexuality?” asked it with prejudice, that there was something psychologically wrong with homosexuality. With that in mind, these kinds of things seem to annoy you. You’d like people to take you at your word that your a psychologically normal gay person. Yes?

I don’t mean I need clarification. I mean I accept you are satisfied, if you say you are, and tht as a gay man, you’re psychologically well-adjusted like any heterosexual man. I also suspect you’d be offended if I tried to work out if you were *really* happy as a gay man. If I began to nitpick your words, to find out if you were *genuinely* and *really* happy, you’d be offended and angry. As you said in your own post, perhaps when you say you’re a satisfied gay man livign a gay life, perhaps your example is applicable here: ““I’m satisfied, Doc, just leave the railroad spike in my foot and give me something for the pain…”” You see, what you say doens’t need to be clear. I don’t need to clarify your happiness. I can’t possibly clarify your emotions, if you feel them to be true. They are yours, and you own them. Don’t forget your own comment to Dr. throckmorotn where you got annoyed that anyone who asked the question “What causes homosexuality?” asked it with prejudice, that there was something psychologically wrong with homosexuality. With that in mind, these kinds of things seem to annoy you. You’d like people to take you at your word that your a psychologically normal gay person. Yes?

I’m going to be repeating points I’ve made many times in postings here, but maybe I keep repeating myself to help clarify my own thinking.

1) Many homosexuals (I have no idea what percentage) are able to adapt quite well to a heterosexual lifestyle, including loving, sexually fulfilling heterosexual marriage. The motivation does not have to be religious–my partner had a very successful 14 year marriage based solely on the business he and his wife ran together. Homosexuals have been adapting in this way, largely due to social and religious pressure, for as far back as we know. It’s certainly nothing new to ex-gay ministries or value-oriented therapy.

2) The ability to adapt to a heterosexual lifestyle and establish a marriage does not constitute a “change” in basic sexual orientation. I am not a social scientist and have not conducted research on this topic, so I can only speak of what I’ve seen among the many people I’ve met in both ex-gay ministries and now in an openly gay life. No one I’ve met personally has ever changed orientation or stopped being aware of himself as gay no matter how long or successfully he was married or otherwise adapted.

I do not deny the possibility that some people actually do experience changes in orientation. I’m simply saying that successful adaptation to a heterosexual life does not equal “change” in that sense.

3) When a person’s basic orientation remains unchanged, heterosexual adaptation may not remain successful long term. People go through many other changes over their lives, and the convictions or circumstances that motivate a successful adaptation often change with them. Religious beliefs may shift or modify; children grow up and cease to be the focus of a marriage; shared interests may fade. These changes are challenging enough for any marriage, but they are greatly intensified when one partner has a strong homosexual orientation. So even a seemingly successful adaptation carries (I believe) a higher-than-normal risk of a bitter divorce or other traumatic upheaval later in life.

Due to my own experience with the ups and downs of adaptation over the long haul, I remain very skeptical of recommending this approach to anyone.

Based on the testimonials and other things I’ve read about Exodus (and NARTH etc.) it seems the group of gay men they tend to target (effeminate, promiscous/sex addicts) are the type of men Kaiser claims were least likely to change. Hopefully there are other readers who may have more detailed info on who Exodus clients are and can correct me if I’ve got the wrong impression.

Granted they also seem to have strong religous beliefs against being gay which Kaiser says is an indicator of being able to change.