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	Comments on: 60 Minutes segment: Mother of fraternal twin boys a lesbian	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:25:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: NickC		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NickC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a interesting digression on the constant argument of whether homosexuality is genetically or otherwise inherent.



Some studies indicate that the inclination to religious belief and practice is influenced more by genetics than parental influence and formation:  http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002666.html



It seems that the majority of people who attempt ex-gay &quot;conversion&quot; are motivated by a conflict between their religious beliefs and their sexual orientation.  Perhaps these people are battling two biologically-determined drives that,  due to the anti-homosexual position of most religions, cannot easily be reconciled.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a interesting digression on the constant argument of whether homosexuality is genetically or otherwise inherent.</p>
<p>Some studies indicate that the inclination to religious belief and practice is influenced more by genetics than parental influence and formation:  <a href="http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002666.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002666.html</a></p>
<p>It seems that the majority of people who attempt ex-gay &#8220;conversion&#8221; are motivated by a conflict between their religious beliefs and their sexual orientation.  Perhaps these people are battling two biologically-determined drives that,  due to the anti-homosexual position of most religions, cannot easily be reconciled.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Boese		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3055</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Boese]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3055</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I am not accusing her of abuse...&lt;/i&gt;



Of course you hadn&#039;t, nor had I or anyone suggested as much.



&lt;i&gt;Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena...&lt;/i&gt;



Previously you referenced &lt;i&gt;parents [who] fostered patterns in children that were more of the parentâ€™s wishes than the childs... and I have seen it reversed, much to the relief and well being of the child.&lt;/i&gt;



So, the earlier reference was to parental manipulation at the child&#039;s expense, and the second to permissiveness.



Isn&#039;t there a significant difference between redirection and permissiveness?  Is there evidence to suggest that parental permissiveness about gender expression is harmful to a child? Or the prevalence of permissiveness as a precursor to abusive redirection?



Like you, I would have liked to see more details reported by CBS, such as the nature of professional support and guidance Danielle has gotten for her family, and more about how she has responded to both sons.



But CBS has also &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/13/publiceye/entry1397301.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;documented&lt;/a&gt; a bit of how Dr. Bailey was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/14/publiceye/entry1399162.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;vetted&lt;/a&gt; for inclusion on the segment. I would expect that they spent time gathering background and history on Danielle&#039;s family, also, hopefully including a look at whether her parenting has been based on getting reasonable amounts of professional counsel and support.



Typically, Warren, I appreciate your precision. This time, I&#039;m not seeing it.



Maybe orientation is relevant, you suggest. Maybe non-straight parents are more permissive. Maybe the line to abusive redirection is easily crossed. Maybe CBS doesn&#039;t vet the folks it covers effectively. Maybe all of these factors were active in this case.



At some point perhaps you can develop the topic of parental redirection from standpoint of where the evidence and your experience lie. What guidelines, resources, support are available to parents to ensure they don&#039;t get off track? In your work, what approaches have been most effective with kids who are still gender variant after ruling out parental redirection as a contributing factor?



I&#039;d be genuinely interested in your answers to those sorts of questions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am not accusing her of abuse&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Of course you hadn&#8217;t, nor had I or anyone suggested as much.</p>
<p><i>Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Previously you referenced <i>parents [who] fostered patterns in children that were more of the parentâ€™s wishes than the childs&#8230; and I have seen it reversed, much to the relief and well being of the child.</i></p>
<p>So, the earlier reference was to parental manipulation at the child&#8217;s expense, and the second to permissiveness.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t there a significant difference between redirection and permissiveness?  Is there evidence to suggest that parental permissiveness about gender expression is harmful to a child? Or the prevalence of permissiveness as a precursor to abusive redirection?</p>
<p>Like you, I would have liked to see more details reported by CBS, such as the nature of professional support and guidance Danielle has gotten for her family, and more about how she has responded to both sons.</p>
<p>But CBS has also <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/13/publiceye/entry1397301.shtml" rel="nofollow">documented</a> a bit of how Dr. Bailey was <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/14/publiceye/entry1399162.shtml" rel="nofollow">vetted</a> for inclusion on the segment. I would expect that they spent time gathering background and history on Danielle&#8217;s family, also, hopefully including a look at whether her parenting has been based on getting reasonable amounts of professional counsel and support.</p>
<p>Typically, Warren, I appreciate your precision. This time, I&#8217;m not seeing it.</p>
<p>Maybe orientation is relevant, you suggest. Maybe non-straight parents are more permissive. Maybe the line to abusive redirection is easily crossed. Maybe CBS doesn&#8217;t vet the folks it covers effectively. Maybe all of these factors were active in this case.</p>
<p>At some point perhaps you can develop the topic of parental redirection from standpoint of where the evidence and your experience lie. What guidelines, resources, support are available to parents to ensure they don&#8217;t get off track? In your work, what approaches have been most effective with kids who are still gender variant after ruling out parental redirection as a contributing factor?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be genuinely interested in your answers to those sorts of questions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ivan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[I asked on another post about the Hershberger triplet study (but got no reply). Since it&#039;s a little hard to work out why the difference in the triplets, what you&#039;ve said about the CBS story makes me wonder if Hershbergers study also has some detail that wasn&#039;t recorded that might make all the difference.



Ivan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked on another post about the Hershberger triplet study (but got no reply). Since it&#8217;s a little hard to work out why the difference in the triplets, what you&#8217;ve said about the CBS story makes me wonder if Hershbergers study also has some detail that wasn&#8217;t recorded that might make all the difference.</p>
<p>Ivan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3053</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am not accusing her of abuse since I do not know anything more than anyone else does. Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena than another parent might have been. I do not know if the presence of a father would have mattered. However, I do not think these items irrelevant as Michael Bailey implied by assessing the woman&#039;s actions as being irrelevant. Truth is, no one knows and since this is the case, I do not think the CBS segment reports the situation &lt;i&gt;as it is&lt;/i&gt; but rather selectively reports it (spins?) in order to reinforce previously believed ideas. As much as I respect Dr. Bailey&#039;s scientific work, I do think they should have interviewed scientists and social scientists who could have raised questions about the conclusions. Given the dizzying number of exceptions int the segment and in the research to what would be expected if homosexuality had a purely and directly genetic or hormonal origin, the conclusion should have been - we don&#039;t know as yet what causes same sex attraction but it appears that both nature and nurture are involved.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not accusing her of abuse since I do not know anything more than anyone else does. Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena than another parent might have been. I do not know if the presence of a father would have mattered. However, I do not think these items irrelevant as Michael Bailey implied by assessing the woman&#8217;s actions as being irrelevant. Truth is, no one knows and since this is the case, I do not think the CBS segment reports the situation <i>as it is</i> but rather selectively reports it (spins?) in order to reinforce previously believed ideas. As much as I respect Dr. Bailey&#8217;s scientific work, I do think they should have interviewed scientists and social scientists who could have raised questions about the conclusions. Given the dizzying number of exceptions int the segment and in the research to what would be expected if homosexuality had a purely and directly genetic or hormonal origin, the conclusion should have been &#8211; we don&#8217;t know as yet what causes same sex attraction but it appears that both nature and nurture are involved.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Boese		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3052</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Boese]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/12/12/60-minutes-segment-mother-of-fraternal-twin-boys-a-lesbian/#comment-3052</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[....aghhhh, I meant &lt;strike&gt;parental&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;i&gt;child&lt;/i&gt; abuse, of course.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;.aghhhh, I meant <strike>parental</strike> <i>child</i> abuse, of course.</p>
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