Comments on: What if the church is wrong about homosexuality? https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/ A [retired] college psychology professor's observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:13:16 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.3 By: morph01 https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2866 Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:13:16 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2866 What matters is being rigorously honest about how one lives their life and contributes to society as a whole unconditionally. What gets me though is how women can fall for all those male domination doctrines.

I’m blessed to be finally free of religions that judged me as immoral or substandard because I wasn’t born 100% white, These same holy men decided later on down the road to refocus their pagan recruitment drives with heterosexist pontifications. I tried to believe in them, did my best amidst my own misery. In the end, I was left no choice but to say no thanks. I don’t need to rely on a version of a book that was Canonized by a murderer for his own gain to tell me what is right and wrong. It takes courage to stand up and say enough is enough.

]]> By: Dena Leichnitz https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2865 Mon, 09 Jun 2008 02:52:27 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2865 but I don’t think its right to go around and say that anyone can change, because most try and aren’t able to.

That is the point, YOU CAN’T CHANGE. Only God can change you. It is not in our human capabilities to change. That is why people fail when they try. When you finally surrender and give it all up to God, that is when the transformation happens. I didn’t change because of anything I did. I changed because God did the changing. Therefore everybody can change because everybody has the same access to God’s power. Are you trying to say I am somehow more special then the next person? That God loves me more than the guy down the street who is also struggling with sexual immorality? No! The only difference between me and the rest of the people on the planet is how much faith you place in the Almighty. I try to put my life into his hands everyday. That is all I can do. But everybody is capable of change because we are all God’s children and therefore no one is left out in the cold. If you go an inch, God will take you the mile.

God bless you, Dena. I am glad for your story. So readers can be clear, are you describing a change in same-sex behavior or opposite sex behavior?

It was most opposite sex sexual behavior. But I have suffered from same sex attraction as well. I have noticed when I am doing what I need to be doing. When I am more focused on service and on God, then the same attraction fade considerably. When I don’t then they come back with a vengeance. However, I have never acted on my same sex attraction only on my heterosexual attraction. Not only that whenever I pictured my life with someone or thought about falling in love it was always with a man, never a woman. Therefore I consider myself straight with occasional same sex leanings.

]]> By: José Solano https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2864 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:27:54 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2864 I’m heading out the door now so all I can say is that Darek and Dena have shown an accurate understanding of the God revealed in Scripture, not the one we construct. It is not the God whom we judge but the God who judges us. It is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac revealed and incarnated in Jesus whose birth we celebrate at this time of the year.

]]> By: jayhuck https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2863 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:47:56 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2863 Dena,

I’m kind of curious, what do you tell those people who pray and pray and pray and work for years trying to overcome/change their orientation and never do? Do you simply tell them they aren’t trying hard enough? Do you tell them sorry, but God blesses some of us and no others?

I’m happy in that you seem to be VERY happy, and you seem to have a strong heart for God, but I don’t think its right to go around and say that anyone can change, because most try and aren’t able to.

]]> By: Mary https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2862 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:27:35 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2862 Yes, thanks Dena. You said what is on my mind. We are to follow his directions to his house instead of making them up along the way. I’ve been lost too – many times – and am ever grategul to find his path.

]]> By: Warren https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2861 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 06:52:01 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2861 God bless you, Dena. I am glad for your story. So readers can be clear, are you describing a change in same-sex behavior or opposite sex behavior?

]]> By: Dena Leichnitz https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2860 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:44:46 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2860 Why is it that we are always looking to have a relationship with God on our terms and not his? Why don’t we believe his directions for going to His home and spending an eternity in His kingdom. If you wanted to come to my house and I gave you directions but you decided you knew better and disobeyed them, then don’t be angry at me when you don’t arrive at my home. I gave you explicit directions and you ignored them. Is this no different than what God has done for mankind? He has given us specific directions that lead to eternal life and a restored relationship with him. Doing it our way is futile and unnecessary. I have tried it my own way and all it got me was sorrow, heartbreak and lost time. Time that could’ve been better spent helping my fellow man or learning about God and his plan for my life. The one who said he would never worship a god who wasn’t as compassionate as he was is arrogant and prideful. Who says you are compassionate in the first place? Who says your mercy and compassion are even an iota of what God’s are. His mercy and compassion is perfect, without flaw. You are not, I am not, no one on this earth is without flaw. God gives abundantly and without expecting repayment, for we could never repay him anyway. While his love may be unconditional, his blessings come only with our obedience to his law and commandments. For years I practiced sexual immorality, I thought I was a liberated woman and could do whatever I wanted. I tried to tell myself I was happy, yet after ever encounter with some anonymous male, I wanted to die. If I was so free then why was I so miserable. I realized that I had been lied to. So I sought out the truth and at the end of my search was God. He restored me, he replaced a broken woman with a shattered heart and soul with a woman who was finding herself falling deeply and in completely in love with the Lord. I have now been celibate for about sixteen months and I have found it to be a difficult but a wonderful, joyous and humbling experience. I would not trade it for anything. God has restored my self-respect and now my body is no longer an amusement park for my recreation but a temple of the Most High. So if I can change my sexuality, anyone can. It is not beyond God’s capability and if you think it is then you are worshiping an impotent and powerless god. Not to mention a pretty worthless and pathetic deity. However, the one true God, the one I worship, the one who was the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac, well he is all powerful, all divine, all holy and all perfect. That is my God. He has proven himself and his power over and over again to me. God is not wrong, God does not lie. God knows what is best for us, not man, not liberals, not society-God. The sooner you learn that, the better off you will be.

]]> By: Morph01 https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2859 Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:05:32 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2859 The original Scriptures of the Torah, where the Christian Holy Bible Old Testament comes from, do not support anti-gay claims of some Christian faiths. As far as New Testament anti-gay admonishions go, look at the source of such: Paul, who was one sick, immoral man with his own agendas aside from spiritual purity. Will God punish me for relating these observations? That is not for any other human to decide.

Frankly, the need for such gay-gene DNA studies is academic only; gender diversity–the healthy acceptance that non-heterosexuals deserve to be able to have an equal life (not a “lifestyle choice” as some would term it) is already alive and well amongst the compassionate portions of our civilized world. IF there is a lesson in humanity to be learned from what can otherwise be a devisive strife, it is that love and truth will persevere.

Meanwhile, quite a number of married Baptist ministers have clamored at my email Inbox for my sexual attentions on Saturday nights, and that is no joke. But alas, sleeping with them is sleeping with an enemy who would make love to me on such nights and damn me in sermon the next morning. No thanks. I lead an ACTIVE spiritual life!

]]> By: Lynn David https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2858 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:29:44 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2858 I always thought it was rather simple; during one or two of his more lucid moments Jesus said:

Matt 16:19… And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And again….

Matt 18:18-20… Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, I say to you, that if two of you are in agreement on earth about anything for which they will make a request, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So good he said it twice. All it takes is your will not that of a god.

]]> By: Stephen Black https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2857 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:47:26 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/11/21/what-if-the-church-is-wrong-about-homosexuality/#comment-2857 What if the Bible is wrong?

What if what God says is wrong? Do we even know what God thinks? How can we?

Isn’t that another take on the title of this section?

Haven’t men become so wise?

Being gay works? I guess if you believe two men and two woman can create in God’s divine order… or not.

“He sits upon the clouds and laughs.”

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