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	<title>
	Comments on: Dr. Joseph Berger&#8217;s statements on the NARTH website retracted	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:14:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Boo		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems NARTH isn&#039;t really learning much from these experiences:

http://www.narth.com/docs/sciencegames.html

My favorite part:

&quot;Besides, when an adolescent does not smoke etc., nor manifests antisocial behavior at 15, he or she may do so at 18;&quot;

Just because Joseph Nicolosi hasn&#039;t gone on a shooting rampage at the nearest elementary school yet, doesn&#039;t mean he won&#039;t in another year or so. Scientific studies should always take into account how their findings may be altered by future hypotheticals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems NARTH isn&#8217;t really learning much from these experiences:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.narth.com/docs/sciencegames.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.narth.com/docs/sciencegames.html</a></p>
<p>My favorite part:</p>
<p>&#8220;Besides, when an adolescent does not smoke etc., nor manifests antisocial behavior at 15, he or she may do so at 18;&#8221;</p>
<p>Just because Joseph Nicolosi hasn&#8217;t gone on a shooting rampage at the nearest elementary school yet, doesn&#8217;t mean he won&#8217;t in another year or so. Scientific studies should always take into account how their findings may be altered by future hypotheticals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scott McVicker		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott McVicker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[People may want to read the lead article by Dr. Nicolosi on the NARTH website.  It demonstrates that he does, after all, have some understanding of how terribly damaging shame and humiliation can be-- especially for men with SSA.

He says:  &quot;The homosexual impulse is an attempt to rediscover the free, expressive, open, powerful, gendered self which requires an ASSERTION of self regarding shich he has felt humiliated.&quot;  Dr. Berger, take note.  Many Christian gays like me were upset and asserted themselves when Dr. Berger suggested shaming.

He goes on:  &quot;Shame is a double-edged sword.  It cuts the person off from both self and others.  The shamed self feels humiliated and believes it is ineffective, insignificant and worthless.&quot; Many thousand of gay boys know how true this is.  That&#039;s why not teasing, ridiculing or humiliating them is so vital -- whether one tries to change their SSA or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People may want to read the lead article by Dr. Nicolosi on the NARTH website.  It demonstrates that he does, after all, have some understanding of how terribly damaging shame and humiliation can be&#8211; especially for men with SSA.</p>
<p>He says:  &#8220;The homosexual impulse is an attempt to rediscover the free, expressive, open, powerful, gendered self which requires an ASSERTION of self regarding shich he has felt humiliated.&#8221;  Dr. Berger, take note.  Many Christian gays like me were upset and asserted themselves when Dr. Berger suggested shaming.</p>
<p>He goes on:  &#8220;Shame is a double-edged sword.  It cuts the person off from both self and others.  The shamed self feels humiliated and believes it is ineffective, insignificant and worthless.&#8221; Many thousand of gay boys know how true this is.  That&#8217;s why not teasing, ridiculing or humiliating them is so vital &#8212; whether one tries to change their SSA or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have just spoken with a dear Christian friend.  We prayed and cried together.  She gave me a &quot;good talking to&quot; and reminded me that the battle we all fight is spiiritual, not physical.

I apologize for my angry and agressive tone and behavior towards NARTH.  I cannot fight bullies by becoming one.  I am reminded of the passage:  &quot;love your enemies and pray for those who mistreat you&quot; -- even if these folks are followers of Christ.

I have been very troubled by the attack that almost killed me and left my best friend dead.  I know the Holy Spirit will comfort me as Jesus said:

&quot;Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted&quot;.

Again, my sincere apologies.  As much as it might surprise some readers, I do think of these men as brothers in Christ.

I look forward to meeting Alan Chambers and Dr. Nicolosi in Palm Springs.  WELCOME.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just spoken with a dear Christian friend.  We prayed and cried together.  She gave me a &#8220;good talking to&#8221; and reminded me that the battle we all fight is spiiritual, not physical.</p>
<p>I apologize for my angry and agressive tone and behavior towards NARTH.  I cannot fight bullies by becoming one.  I am reminded of the passage:  &#8220;love your enemies and pray for those who mistreat you&#8221; &#8212; even if these folks are followers of Christ.</p>
<p>I have been very troubled by the attack that almost killed me and left my best friend dead.  I know the Holy Spirit will comfort me as Jesus said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted&#8221;.</p>
<p>Again, my sincere apologies.  As much as it might surprise some readers, I do think of these men as brothers in Christ.</p>
<p>I look forward to meeting Alan Chambers and Dr. Nicolosi in Palm Springs.  WELCOME.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s more from Sojourner.  They think I &quot;need to stop being a victim&quot; and get some therapy:

&quot;Michael,

Dr. Nicolosi is the president of Narth and highly respected in the field. However Narth is not his organization. Narth has many leaders, members, world class researchers and mental health professionals.

Yes, mistakes were made in posting the article. We have removed it and Narth has stated we do not approve of bulling or shaming those with homosexual issues, children or adults.

You need to get over it and stop being a victim. In fact, you have become the perpetrator not the victim. Your actions of constant telephone calls and emails has, crossed the line to abuse. It is not uncommon for the victim to subconsciously, changes roles and become the bully. Perhaps getting some therapy for your anger would be helpful.

Many men who have same sex attraction, and appear rather feminine have suffered from bullying, abuse and worse. I am sorry for what you had to go through and for your friend. This kind of bullying behavior is inappropriate and in some cases criminal.

That being said, many in the field of unwanted SSA, have strong disagreement with the political activities of the Gay activists. We will not back down, from providing information, research and psychotherapy for those who suffer from unwanted homosexuality.&quot;

Sojourner:  Do only I need therapy -- or would that be anyone upset by NARTH&#039;s nonsense?  And why do you assume that I &quot;appear rather feminine&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s more from Sojourner.  They think I &#8220;need to stop being a victim&#8221; and get some therapy:</p>
<p>&#8220;Michael,</p>
<p>Dr. Nicolosi is the president of Narth and highly respected in the field. However Narth is not his organization. Narth has many leaders, members, world class researchers and mental health professionals.</p>
<p>Yes, mistakes were made in posting the article. We have removed it and Narth has stated we do not approve of bulling or shaming those with homosexual issues, children or adults.</p>
<p>You need to get over it and stop being a victim. In fact, you have become the perpetrator not the victim. Your actions of constant telephone calls and emails has, crossed the line to abuse. It is not uncommon for the victim to subconsciously, changes roles and become the bully. Perhaps getting some therapy for your anger would be helpful.</p>
<p>Many men who have same sex attraction, and appear rather feminine have suffered from bullying, abuse and worse. I am sorry for what you had to go through and for your friend. This kind of bullying behavior is inappropriate and in some cases criminal.</p>
<p>That being said, many in the field of unwanted SSA, have strong disagreement with the political activities of the Gay activists. We will not back down, from providing information, research and psychotherapy for those who suffer from unwanted homosexuality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sojourner:  Do only I need therapy &#8212; or would that be anyone upset by NARTH&#8217;s nonsense?  And why do you assume that I &#8220;appear rather feminine&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/08/31/dr-joseph-bergers-statements-on-the-narth-website-retracted/#comment-2167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, I just got a public response on the NARTH website from &quot;sojourner&quot; -- apparently the person who decides whose comments get posted and whose do not. I have vigorously objected by phone and email to Dr. Berger&#039;s article. I admit it. I HAVE been relentless.

Up until now, they have been unwilling to post anything I have sent.

Here is the explanation: &quot;Michael, if you would stop attacking people and naming names, I would put your comments on the blog. You are blaming one person (Dr. Nicolosi) when in fact he had nothing to do with the situation. When he did find out about the article on the blog, he told the people in charge of the website and blog, to correct the problem.&quot;

Questions: Why didn&#039;t Nicolosi know about the article? Who did? Who is responsible for posting it in the first place? Have they been reprimanded? Isn&#039;t NARTH Joe&#039;s baby? Isn&#039;t NARTH his organization? Is he so out of touch with what his own organization is doing and saying? NARTH accuses me of &quot;intimidation&quot; when their own advisor suggests mistreating kids? Then NARTH gets mad when I strongly object? If they can&#039;t take it, maybe they shouldn&#039;t dish it out.

Going on, Soujourner accuses me of &quot;bullying and agressive behavior.&quot; Really? Who suggested we tease and ridicule kids? Dr. Berger did. It was posted on Nicolosi&#039;s website.

Sojourner accuses me of being a &quot;gay activist&quot;. OK. I will accept the label. Even though I am not a member of any gay organization, I am gay and I do take action when the line is crossed. Berger and Nicolosi crossed it.

Sojourner then advises me to &quot;just take a breath, calm down and get control of your anger&quot;. Easy for Sojourner to say. As a kid, was Sojourner teased and ridiculed by &quot;normal&quot; schoolyard bullies on an almost daily basis?

Was Sojourner stabbed in the back by young men yelling &quot;faggot&quot;? Did sojourner&#039;s best friend bleed to death of five stab wounds in the back by those same bullies?

So if the &quot;sissy&quot; (me) finally stands up and says a LOUD and ANGRY &quot;NO&quot; to bullying (NARTH), then the sissy is a bully? What are we supposed to do, grin and bear it?

Posted by: Michael Bussee &#124; September 6, 2006 11:13 AM]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I just got a public response on the NARTH website from &#8220;sojourner&#8221; &#8212; apparently the person who decides whose comments get posted and whose do not. I have vigorously objected by phone and email to Dr. Berger&#8217;s article. I admit it. I HAVE been relentless.</p>
<p>Up until now, they have been unwilling to post anything I have sent.</p>
<p>Here is the explanation: &#8220;Michael, if you would stop attacking people and naming names, I would put your comments on the blog. You are blaming one person (Dr. Nicolosi) when in fact he had nothing to do with the situation. When he did find out about the article on the blog, he told the people in charge of the website and blog, to correct the problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>Questions: Why didn&#8217;t Nicolosi know about the article? Who did? Who is responsible for posting it in the first place? Have they been reprimanded? Isn&#8217;t NARTH Joe&#8217;s baby? Isn&#8217;t NARTH his organization? Is he so out of touch with what his own organization is doing and saying? NARTH accuses me of &#8220;intimidation&#8221; when their own advisor suggests mistreating kids? Then NARTH gets mad when I strongly object? If they can&#8217;t take it, maybe they shouldn&#8217;t dish it out.</p>
<p>Going on, Soujourner accuses me of &#8220;bullying and agressive behavior.&#8221; Really? Who suggested we tease and ridicule kids? Dr. Berger did. It was posted on Nicolosi&#8217;s website.</p>
<p>Sojourner accuses me of being a &#8220;gay activist&#8221;. OK. I will accept the label. Even though I am not a member of any gay organization, I am gay and I do take action when the line is crossed. Berger and Nicolosi crossed it.</p>
<p>Sojourner then advises me to &#8220;just take a breath, calm down and get control of your anger&#8221;. Easy for Sojourner to say. As a kid, was Sojourner teased and ridiculed by &#8220;normal&#8221; schoolyard bullies on an almost daily basis?</p>
<p>Was Sojourner stabbed in the back by young men yelling &#8220;faggot&#8221;? Did sojourner&#8217;s best friend bleed to death of five stab wounds in the back by those same bullies?</p>
<p>So if the &#8220;sissy&#8221; (me) finally stands up and says a LOUD and ANGRY &#8220;NO&#8221; to bullying (NARTH), then the sissy is a bully? What are we supposed to do, grin and bear it?</p>
<p>Posted by: Michael Bussee | September 6, 2006 11:13 AM</p>
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