Comments on: National Review on Love Won Out

By: grantdale

grantdale — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:32:00 +0000

We knew that Friedman was involved in the design, but that’s the first time we’re heard your name mentioned.

(That’s “Richard C. Freidman” if anyone’s going to go looking for him etc).

Apart from the design — Spitzer has already said that Nicolosi was given early access to the interviews themself: “insisted on getting a summary of the results before going further”.

That’s a very different matter to design of the questions, and then hands off.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:29:00 +0000

Dr. Throckmorton,

I don’t know why it took so long for Schidlo and Schroeder to find as many ex-ex gays as they did – the Ex-Ex gay story is all over the web. I personally know of 3 people who identify as such. Maybe if Wayne Besen was providing them with Ex-Ex gays as conservative Evangelicals had provided Spitzer with Ex-Gays, we would be able to make a real comparison.

By: Throckmorton

Throckmorton — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:17:00 +0000

Re: Spitzer’s design – I also had a hand in reviewing it as did several others, named and unnamed in the final presentation. Rick Friedman was an early collaborator on the design. Just want to temper the notion that Nicolosi was pulling strings behind the scenes. It wasn’t that way.

By: Throckmorton

Throckmorton — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:14:00 +0000

My understanding from the presentation I did with them was that they were in contact with all of the gay advocacy organizations. NARTH put a notice of the study in their bulletin. I believe it went around on the Exodus list. Perhaps, today they would get more participants, but I am pretty sure they tried hard and had some media coverage as well.

By: grantdale

grantdale — Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:31:00 +0000

One wonders too, just to be more inclusive…

How would/did NARTH and Exodus respond to the requests by Shidlo and Schroeder?

Or, “not interested”?

By: grantdale

grantdale — Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:26:00 +0000

Also, please address why it took Shidlo and Schroeder over twice as long to find fewer ex-ex-gays than it took Spitzer to find the 200 ex-gays he interviewed.

Well, for one thing they didn’t have several hundred groups running around desperately attempting to drum up a study group. Warren, you know very well that NARTH and Exodus started beating the drums over this from the get go (after, that is, Nicolosi personally approved the study design).

By contrast, I donâ€™t know of any campaigns to find subjects for Shidlo and Schroeder. They had a rather plain webpage with contact details and took out a few plain ads in some papers. They didnâ€™t access, say, the membership lists of PFLAG, HRC, NGLTF etc and send out pleas. I doubt many ex-ex-gays even knew of the study.

(Weâ€™d emailed them at the beginning of the study, after stumbling on the webpage, and they seemed rather vague about when theyâ€™d finish. But it was going to be years off. Sounded like a very part time effort.)

And â€“ letâ€™s not overlook — Nicolosi should have been able to provide the 200 himself — if we believe his claim that “1/3 succeed”

He provided 9.

Oops.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:03:00 +0000

Dr. Throckmorton:

You wrote: “the directive nature of the “uncovering” process” and “emphasis on the past”

Can you elaborate on these 2 a little?

Ivan.

By: Throckmorton

Throckmorton — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:30:00 +0000

Ivan: I respect your effort to be fair and nuanced. My two strongest points of disagreement with RT is the directive nature of the “uncovering” process and the application to all clients presenting with same sex attraction. Ok, three, the application of RT as theory to all people who experience SSA. Finding meaning in past events, understanding how learning and attachment impacts relationships, etc. are pretty tame aspects of psychodynamic therapy. What could repair reparative therapy as good as it could be repaired would be to make the historical review client-directed, and only apply it to those clients with the types of wounds it predicts. I would go further and scrap other stuff, including the healing and cure metaphors and the emphasis on the past as necessary to resolve to move on, but that is just me.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:16:00 +0000

Grantdale and Anonymous:

I wasn’t responding to Dr. Throckmorton about all the possible results/scenarios for “Frank” — Just within the framework of change, to be open to a modality that probably is pushed a little too hard, ad a little too dogamtically, but that may yet still have some truth, to whatever extent.

Ivan.

By: Throckmorton

Throckmorton — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:24:00 +0000

I’m sorry to keep stressing this, but even for people who claim that change has actually happened, even then they may realize years later that it indeed has not – that they were just suppressing their feelings – Hence Ex-Ex Gays!

Please provide something more than anecdotes for this. Also, please address why it took Shidlo and Schroeder over twice as long to find fewer ex-ex-gays than it took Spitzer to find the 200 ex-gays he interviewed.