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	Comments on: Therapy vs. therapeutic	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:22:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1404</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1404</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have four children (one of whom is not in school yet) so believe me I know how important touch and affection is.

The issue is who provides it and within what context. Five minutes in a glider is not nearly enough and then this turns into five more and more until the client attaches to the therapist.

Adults need to learn to put their feelings into words. Therapists cannot gratify their client&#039;s needs. They can instead help clients do this in the real world.

And no, the 80% figure is not accurate as applied to all homosexuals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have four children (one of whom is not in school yet) so believe me I know how important touch and affection is.</p>
<p>The issue is who provides it and within what context. Five minutes in a glider is not nearly enough and then this turns into five more and more until the client attaches to the therapist.</p>
<p>Adults need to learn to put their feelings into words. Therapists cannot gratify their client&#8217;s needs. They can instead help clients do this in the real world.</p>
<p>And no, the 80% figure is not accurate as applied to all homosexuals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1403</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1403</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Dr. Throckmorton,
I saw the article on AgapePress re: Mr. Cohen&#039;s CNN appearance.  As a stay-at-home mother of 2, my youngest is 6, I have been very intrigued with the need for touch from my children since birth, especially in the early years.  I have attempted to follow some of the &quot;attachment parenting&quot; ideas of Dr. William Sears, i.e. breastfeeding for 1-2 years, and sleeping with the children.  It may seem unusual to those not around young children alot, but my intuition is that TOUCH is more important to children than food.  Physical touch is powerful. Like the old trick of breathing on an infants head to quiet them and the powerful bonding that occurs with breastfeeding where touch and food go together.   I would not be so skeptical of the idea of touch therapy.  It must be done very carefully so as not to become sexual and end up another hurt to the hurting person.   I&#039;ve often thought that it is what alot of really hurting people need,  a few minutes in a glider with a truly caring person with time to cry out the hurts of our childhoods.

On a totally separate note, I had read many years ago that some 80% of people with homosexual desires had been used sexually as children at some point.  I&#039;ve been unable to find that info again,  do you know if that is true?

I appreciate your work on this important subject of human sexuality.  My prayer is that God will &quot;save us from our sins&quot;, heterosexual and homosexual -- and lead us all to sexual purity where we can stop using and being used.  I want to be loved, not used.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dr. Throckmorton,<br />
I saw the article on AgapePress re: Mr. Cohen&#8217;s CNN appearance.  As a stay-at-home mother of 2, my youngest is 6, I have been very intrigued with the need for touch from my children since birth, especially in the early years.  I have attempted to follow some of the &#8220;attachment parenting&#8221; ideas of Dr. William Sears, i.e. breastfeeding for 1-2 years, and sleeping with the children.  It may seem unusual to those not around young children alot, but my intuition is that TOUCH is more important to children than food.  Physical touch is powerful. Like the old trick of breathing on an infants head to quiet them and the powerful bonding that occurs with breastfeeding where touch and food go together.   I would not be so skeptical of the idea of touch therapy.  It must be done very carefully so as not to become sexual and end up another hurt to the hurting person.   I&#8217;ve often thought that it is what alot of really hurting people need,  a few minutes in a glider with a truly caring person with time to cry out the hurts of our childhoods.</p>
<p>On a totally separate note, I had read many years ago that some 80% of people with homosexual desires had been used sexually as children at some point.  I&#8217;ve been unable to find that info again,  do you know if that is true?</p>
<p>I appreciate your work on this important subject of human sexuality.  My prayer is that God will &#8220;save us from our sins&#8221;, heterosexual and homosexual &#8212; and lead us all to sexual purity where we can stop using and being used.  I want to be loved, not used.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1402</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1402</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Throckmorton:

What do you think is a legitimate method for a child or adult who was very deprived of any affectionate touch? Let&#039;s assume it was part of the persons experience of homosexuality, hypothetically. How would you handle it? You very briefly wrote about it earlier.

Ivan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Throckmorton:</p>
<p>What do you think is a legitimate method for a child or adult who was very deprived of any affectionate touch? Let&#8217;s assume it was part of the persons experience of homosexuality, hypothetically. How would you handle it? You very briefly wrote about it earlier.</p>
<p>Ivan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1401</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kronemeyer is based in Jacov et al. (D! you&#039;re gonna make me google to make sure I get the spelling correct...). Large slabs of Kronemeyer&#039;s Syntonic Therapy will sound very familiar to a Primal Screamer.

I did read Kronemeyer&#039;s hideous &quot;Overcoming Homosexuality&quot; many years ago. A classic psychoanalyst mind-set that saw a few disturbed people in their clinic, and thereby concluded they understood an entire group of people that they otherwise avoided and were ignorant of. One wonders what he would have concluded if he&#039;d been equally ignorant of heterosexuals as a group and seen a few in therapy (A: the same!)

Oh, that and the classic psychoanalyst mindset of &quot;I know it doesn&#039;t appear that you are sick. But I know better. You &lt;I&gt;must be&lt;/I&gt; in denial/lying/repressing/etc. You are sick because I say so.&quot; An attitude that is virtually impervious to reasoning or evidence. One can almost hear the irrational voice/s of Rado...

-------------

Warren, I don&#039;t doubt for a moment that some adults can be very deprived of even the simplest human affections. To the point this does spill over in all sorts of ways. Perhaps it&#039;s those that &quot;rise to the level of a treatable condition&quot;? (Is that what you&#039;re saying?)

In any case I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the role of the therapist themself to attempt to &lt;I&gt;provide&lt;/I&gt; the missing touch or affection. I think we&#039;re agreeing on this, at least?

Suggest ways the client can find what they want, sure. Point them to support groups or social settings, yep. Work through attitudes or behaviour that may be preventing the desired outcome, well of course.

I&#039;m trying to think of an anology, and the best I can come up with -- for now -- is the idea that someone could (or should) go searching for genuine love and affection with a prostitute. Whatever one might get (or contract!) with a prostitute, I&#039;m not sure many would think it was genuine love and affection.

At least prostitutes seem to understand their role, even if some therapists do not...

sidenote for readers: listen to Nina Simone&#039;s extraordinary version of &quot;Love For Sale&quot; to get were we&#039;re going here :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kronemeyer is based in Jacov et al. (D! you&#8217;re gonna make me google to make sure I get the spelling correct&#8230;). Large slabs of Kronemeyer&#8217;s Syntonic Therapy will sound very familiar to a Primal Screamer.</p>
<p>I did read Kronemeyer&#8217;s hideous &#8220;Overcoming Homosexuality&#8221; many years ago. A classic psychoanalyst mind-set that saw a few disturbed people in their clinic, and thereby concluded they understood an entire group of people that they otherwise avoided and were ignorant of. One wonders what he would have concluded if he&#8217;d been equally ignorant of heterosexuals as a group and seen a few in therapy (A: the same!)</p>
<p>Oh, that and the classic psychoanalyst mindset of &#8220;I know it doesn&#8217;t appear that you are sick. But I know better. You <i>must be</i> in denial/lying/repressing/etc. You are sick because I say so.&#8221; An attitude that is virtually impervious to reasoning or evidence. One can almost hear the irrational voice/s of Rado&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Warren, I don&#8217;t doubt for a moment that some adults can be very deprived of even the simplest human affections. To the point this does spill over in all sorts of ways. Perhaps it&#8217;s those that &#8220;rise to the level of a treatable condition&#8221;? (Is that what you&#8217;re saying?)</p>
<p>In any case I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the role of the therapist themself to attempt to <i>provide</i> the missing touch or affection. I think we&#8217;re agreeing on this, at least?</p>
<p>Suggest ways the client can find what they want, sure. Point them to support groups or social settings, yep. Work through attitudes or behaviour that may be preventing the desired outcome, well of course.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to think of an anology, and the best I can come up with &#8212; for now &#8212; is the idea that someone could (or should) go searching for genuine love and affection with a prostitute. Whatever one might get (or contract!) with a prostitute, I&#8217;m not sure many would think it was genuine love and affection.</p>
<p>At least prostitutes seem to understand their role, even if some therapists do not&#8230;</p>
<p>sidenote for readers: listen to Nina Simone&#8217;s extraordinary version of &#8220;Love For Sale&#8221; to get were we&#8217;re going here 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2006/06/01/therapy-vs-therapeutic/#comment-1400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am pretty sure that Kronemeyer used Janov&#039;s ideas.

I am not sure I do agree with the concept of touch deprivation as a common condition. I think there are severely neglected kids that may experience something like this. However, a longing for friendly touch is a human desire. I think people who get a lot of it probably want it too when they are separated from loved ones. In short, I am skeptical that this is some experience that rises to the level of a treatable condition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure that Kronemeyer used Janov&#8217;s ideas.</p>
<p>I am not sure I do agree with the concept of touch deprivation as a common condition. I think there are severely neglected kids that may experience something like this. However, a longing for friendly touch is a human desire. I think people who get a lot of it probably want it too when they are separated from loved ones. In short, I am skeptical that this is some experience that rises to the level of a treatable condition.</p>
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