Debbie, thank you for responding. I wish you had more you could share but I appreciate that which you did.

There’s more to know, but how to ascertain it is the problem. I’m just not going to sweat it. I am going to work with the people who come to me for help. That will keep me plenty occupied.

Debbie, thank you for responding. I wish you had more you could share but I appreciate that which you did.

No one I know even knows who they are. I have to describe the organization to them.

Just how do you describe Exodus to these folks who don’t know who they are?

I am so incredibly tired of some conservatives comparing gay people to drug addicts or adulterers. Its offensive.

Forgive me. I am not trying to be offensive, but merely stating that in the context of the Church, people tend to obsess over homosexuality and change far more than they do over many other very real and more common problems in their midst. Evangelicals see all the above as forms of brokenness leading to sin. I can’t change that perception. I can hope to maybe focus them on a broader perspective. We don’t need to be devaluing gay people or anyone.

I don’t think it is bigotry. I think she really believes that; it fits her experience.

What are you trying to say Warren – that bigotry or prejudice cannot be believed? The fact that she believes that or that it fits her experience doesn’t mean its not bigotry and/or prejudice.

I do not think it is proper to generalize it to all lesbians or bisexuals, nor do I think it is proper to say that is it never true.

I agree Warren – anymore than its true to say that all conservative Christians are inherently bigoted or hypocrites because that has been MY experience.

I really believe a big problem in coming to any ability to co-exist is the tendency to see others through personal experience and assume personal experience should be true or is true of all others who share some characteristic. (e.g., all gays are promiscuous or all conservatives are bigoted).

The much bigger problem though Warren is that these people are trying to devalue other gay people – and not just devalue but they work to prevent gay people from having families and equal rights. THAT is why co-existence is a problem – the fact that each side may or may not make sweeping generalizations about the other is not nearly as big a factor.

Why don’t we obsess over how many alcoholics or drug addicts or adulterers have changed?

I am so incredibly tired of some conservatives comparing gay people to drug addicts or adulterers. Its offensive.

Being married doesn’t mean you aren’t homosexual. How many married homosexual men and women have come out in the last several years??? Enough to make people realize that marriage is probably nothing more than a shield for people who are unhappy with their SSA

Duh! I think we all know that. You can choose to deal with it before or after marriage. And “deal with it” cuts both ways. I didn’t mention above that a couple of us were married to suggest it had given us immunity. Obviously, it didn’t. We are happily, heterosexually married today, however.

You know, I am not one of those who has an obsession with needing to have lots of “changed” people around me that I can point to. I know they are there. A few are my friends. I don’t need to know how many are there. Why don’t we obsess over how many alcoholics or drug addicts or adulterers have changed? We all know in our hearts that change is not easy for any of these. But it is possible.

When I talked about hope earlier, it was in the Romans 5:1-5 context. There is a quiet confidence in that kind of hope. It can lead us then to Romans 12:2 — renewal and transformation. It transcends science and statistics. We don’t need that stuff to do ministry. We ought to be leaving it to the therapists.