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	Comments on: SSA with a great same sex parent relationship?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:05:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I always felt close to my father (as far back as my memory goes, which is about four).  I have three older brothers, and looking back, it seems as if I came out closest to being &#039;like him&#039;.  E.g., I kept going with him to Sunday Mass long after my older siblings had fallen away, developed many of the same tastes in literature, exhibited many of the same personality traits.

My mother was a good mom, but not particularly smothering - granted, after five kids, she probably didn&#039;t have a lot of energy to &#039;smother&#039; the sixth, even had she felt inclined to.

A friend of mine, upon hearing a bit of my family history years ago, remarked that that explained why I was so &#039;masculine&#039; - by which he meant, it came out, that I didn&#039;t act the way he expected gay men to act.

As a coda, I had the great good fortune to meet and marry a man who reminds me very much of my mother.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always felt close to my father (as far back as my memory goes, which is about four).  I have three older brothers, and looking back, it seems as if I came out closest to being &#8216;like him&#8217;.  E.g., I kept going with him to Sunday Mass long after my older siblings had fallen away, developed many of the same tastes in literature, exhibited many of the same personality traits.</p>
<p>My mother was a good mom, but not particularly smothering &#8211; granted, after five kids, she probably didn&#8217;t have a lot of energy to &#8216;smother&#8217; the sixth, even had she felt inclined to.</p>
<p>A friend of mine, upon hearing a bit of my family history years ago, remarked that that explained why I was so &#8216;masculine&#8217; &#8211; by which he meant, it came out, that I didn&#8217;t act the way he expected gay men to act.</p>
<p>As a coda, I had the great good fortune to meet and marry a man who reminds me very much of my mother.</p>
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		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 20:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I guess this is also a fairly basic question...

You have (it seems) an opinion about PFLAG and the parents infolved and their reasoning etc etc...

Have you actually been to one?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess this is also a fairly basic question&#8230;</p>
<p>You have (it seems) an opinion about PFLAG and the parents infolved and their reasoning etc etc&#8230;</p>
<p>Have you actually been to one?</p>
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		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;How about putting into an email how you don&#039;t fit the reparative model so I can include it in stuff I am working on for my website? And further, if you do stumble on to any references about fathers and the general pop, I would appreciate them.&lt;/I&gt;

OK, that&#039;s two parts. And you know what I&#039;m about to say about the latter... (and you PROMISED you would not call me Wayne. Which, btw, is a brother&#039;s name, but I digress).

For the other, send me the questions.

If it&#039;s any indication -- and this is Grant BTW -- Dad&#039;s no academic, but I once read parts of Nicolosi (and your explanation of such from the 1998 paper) to him and he replied in a manner that I can only guess you would not permit on this blog. I didn&#039;t read it to Mum because, frankly, it would have upset her. She&#039;s quite aware how some people feel and does not need to be reminded.

Here&#039;s a clue for the way my father feels. He is a man of sparse words normally (as am I, you&#039;ll be surprised), which makes them more meaningful. This is a good couple of years ago, but my parents have now been married near 50 years.

Mum was rushed to hospital a few days after an operation went wrong (typical us, she tolerated severe pain well beyond what is sensible). Dale and I left work as we could and arrived about 2 hours later -- Mum was about to go back into surgery.

When we arrived the two of them were sitting in a darkened room in silence. Dad just holding her hand. Mum was in agony, but that was all she needed. No fuss. No ranting. Just waiting.

Mum roused a bit as we came in, but it was awful to see her like that. As I sat, and tried to talk, and choked, I felt the warmth of Dale&#039;s hand rest onto my shoulder.  In that mere touch alone was all the strength I needed. It went from him, to me, and as I held Mum and Dad&#039;s hand -- to them. I lasted.

I broke down only when I got outside. And again it was Dale that wrapped around me, and held me up. Just whispers, and his warmth, and his smell, and his soul.

The surgery was very successful. And a few days later my sister was heading down in a lift with Dad and he said, out of the blue:

&quot;Dale is a very good man.&quot;

My sister said, &quot;Yes, I know he is Dad&quot;.

Dad replied, &quot;No, I meant he&#039;s a very good man &lt;I&gt;with&lt;/I&gt; Grant.&quot;

And that, Warren, is what I think you fail to see.

We did not realise at the time, but as Mum lay in agony and Dad shared that agony with her they were still looking at me as parents. They were watching us.

They saw my upset, and they saw how SOMEONE supported me in the deepest way. The same connection that they had with each other, as one lay in pain and needed his irreplacable hand to hold. It&#039;s more than friendship, as they only too well understood. They looked at us, and saw themselves. And this, they understood, was what they had only ever had hoped their child could find -- someone to share his life, as they had shared theirs.

To have someone to love, and to receive love from. To support, and to be supported. To laugh with, and cry with. The most basic and simple of domestic pleasures.

That is what Dad meant when he spoke to my sister.

And that, I fear, is what you avoid considering. Pair-bonding is not an academic exercise. It is life. It is wonderful, should you find it. And it does not follow a formula.

I am sorry that was a long post, but you have an email address for us should you wish to continue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How about putting into an email how you don&#8217;t fit the reparative model so I can include it in stuff I am working on for my website? And further, if you do stumble on to any references about fathers and the general pop, I would appreciate them.</i></p>
<p>OK, that&#8217;s two parts. And you know what I&#8217;m about to say about the latter&#8230; (and you PROMISED you would not call me Wayne. Which, btw, is a brother&#8217;s name, but I digress).</p>
<p>For the other, send me the questions.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s any indication &#8212; and this is Grant BTW &#8212; Dad&#8217;s no academic, but I once read parts of Nicolosi (and your explanation of such from the 1998 paper) to him and he replied in a manner that I can only guess you would not permit on this blog. I didn&#8217;t read it to Mum because, frankly, it would have upset her. She&#8217;s quite aware how some people feel and does not need to be reminded.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a clue for the way my father feels. He is a man of sparse words normally (as am I, you&#8217;ll be surprised), which makes them more meaningful. This is a good couple of years ago, but my parents have now been married near 50 years.</p>
<p>Mum was rushed to hospital a few days after an operation went wrong (typical us, she tolerated severe pain well beyond what is sensible). Dale and I left work as we could and arrived about 2 hours later &#8212; Mum was about to go back into surgery.</p>
<p>When we arrived the two of them were sitting in a darkened room in silence. Dad just holding her hand. Mum was in agony, but that was all she needed. No fuss. No ranting. Just waiting.</p>
<p>Mum roused a bit as we came in, but it was awful to see her like that. As I sat, and tried to talk, and choked, I felt the warmth of Dale&#8217;s hand rest onto my shoulder.  In that mere touch alone was all the strength I needed. It went from him, to me, and as I held Mum and Dad&#8217;s hand &#8212; to them. I lasted.</p>
<p>I broke down only when I got outside. And again it was Dale that wrapped around me, and held me up. Just whispers, and his warmth, and his smell, and his soul.</p>
<p>The surgery was very successful. And a few days later my sister was heading down in a lift with Dad and he said, out of the blue:</p>
<p>&#8220;Dale is a very good man.&#8221;</p>
<p>My sister said, &#8220;Yes, I know he is Dad&#8221;.</p>
<p>Dad replied, &#8220;No, I meant he&#8217;s a very good man <i>with</i> Grant.&#8221;</p>
<p>And that, Warren, is what I think you fail to see.</p>
<p>We did not realise at the time, but as Mum lay in agony and Dad shared that agony with her they were still looking at me as parents. They were watching us.</p>
<p>They saw my upset, and they saw how SOMEONE supported me in the deepest way. The same connection that they had with each other, as one lay in pain and needed his irreplacable hand to hold. It&#8217;s more than friendship, as they only too well understood. They looked at us, and saw themselves. And this, they understood, was what they had only ever had hoped their child could find &#8212; someone to share his life, as they had shared theirs.</p>
<p>To have someone to love, and to receive love from. To support, and to be supported. To laugh with, and cry with. The most basic and simple of domestic pleasures.</p>
<p>That is what Dad meant when he spoke to my sister.</p>
<p>And that, I fear, is what you avoid considering. Pair-bonding is not an academic exercise. It is life. It is wonderful, should you find it. And it does not follow a formula.</p>
<p>I am sorry that was a long post, but you have an email address for us should you wish to continue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One quote
&quot;Being GLBT is as much a human variation as being left-handed â€¦&quot;PFLAG, &quot;Be Yourself&quot; Which parent&#039;s genetics were responsible?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One quote<br />
&#8220;Being GLBT is as much a human variation as being left-handed â€¦&#8221;PFLAG, &#8220;Be Yourself&#8221; Which parent&#8217;s genetics were responsible?</p>
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		<title>
		By: andy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2005 03:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/12/01/ssa-with-a-great-same-sex-parent-relationship/#comment-870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;The human concern is that many parents feel very condemned and hopeless hearing this theory. I think the theory may be one of PFLAG&#039;s greatest recruiting tools.&lt;/I&gt;

I see what you mean. In fact, the reparative theory is one of the cliches that are commonly tossed around and discarded by pro-gay people. People tend to think that this is meant to be a universal theory that somehow explains homosexuality per se. To a gay child who has good relations with both parents, this theory can be pretty insulting and condemnatory.

However, are you sure that PFLAG says that &quot;biology&quot; is all there is?

Andy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The human concern is that many parents feel very condemned and hopeless hearing this theory. I think the theory may be one of PFLAG&#8217;s greatest recruiting tools.</i></p>
<p>I see what you mean. In fact, the reparative theory is one of the cliches that are commonly tossed around and discarded by pro-gay people. People tend to think that this is meant to be a universal theory that somehow explains homosexuality per se. To a gay child who has good relations with both parents, this theory can be pretty insulting and condemnatory.</p>
<p>However, are you sure that PFLAG says that &#8220;biology&#8221; is all there is?</p>
<p>Andy</p>
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