And as a generalisation, innate and immutable does apply to men and women (gay or straight, or whatever).

Does it bother you that exgay groups claim ANY gay man or lesbian can change their sexuality? Talk about a gross generalisation, and it’s not one supported by any reputable professional body.

But glad to hear you feel that gay men are the ones that cannot change. I presume you’ll stop bothering us.

Sorry ck, you’re not a boy. “They” will stop pestering us, and double their efforts on the girls. And there were you wondering why the guys get all the focus, and now it looks like your wish for more attention may come true 😐 Lucky you.

When gay men make generalizations about sexual orientation being fixed and immutable, they seem to comletely ignore the experiences of women.

The experiences of women and men are VERY different, yet it is annoying that gay men use their experiences to generalize to all gay people (men and women) at large.

Because I’m a man and (like all men) don’t pretend for a moment to personally know female sexuality?

I’m more than happy to read what ck and others have to say on the matter, as are many men, but that can only offer us a glimmer of what it is to be female.

The “pfft, women!” comment was meant to clearly indicate that obvious inability to personally understand female sexuality. (And by “our”, I mean all MEN. We’re all at a loss.)

That aside, our world is very far from male-centric. Your guess is laughable — and even if every woman on Earth had a malleable sexuality (which they don’t) that would imply exactly what about men? Haven’t you been following the posts — we are personal friends with both men and women who have jumped both sides of the fence. What they haven’t done is change their sexual orientation (let alone had it changed by some outsider).

And concur with ck’s view about how skewed the “debate” about homosexuality is. To great degree this does reflect the focus of the criminal law and medicine on gay males.

Actually, I’d expand that to say female sexuality as a whole gets discounted, or turned into a discussion about child-bearing rather than about the woman as a sexual being.

And child-bearing… well, there’s a discussion that itself rapidly turns to male dominance and penetration, AGAIN.

Pfft, men!!!

Like I said, women’s sexuality seems to take a back seat in a lot of these types of discussions.

“Do I think I was born this way? No.”

and

“At the same time, I’m also a firm believer that when you fall in love with somebody, you can’t control that. Whether it’s another woman. Whether it’s another man. Whatever. I think that’s what happened to me, to us.”

or

“I can’t help who I fall in love with. No one can.”

Funny, but you missed the last two comments Warren. I think they are rather important, esp. if considering what is going on here.

(let alone, as memphis said “why do these changes seem to occur more in women?”)

As I said before, PFFTT WOMEN!!!!

…usual apol. to CK 🙂