“That’s my son, and I don’t mind one bit that he’s gay. I feel sorry for your mother because her son is a BIG-MOUTHED IDIOT.”

The check-out queue fell about laughing.

Take two people who have identical abilities, and subtract the arms from one of them. The one without arms will then have less ability than the one with arms, and hence be objectively disabled, which is to say have less ability in a clear, measurable way irrespective of how they are perceived by others.

Take two people who have identical abilities, but one is gay and one is straight. To the extent that you consider the gay person disabled, it can only be a subjective disability, because it exists only in your perception of them, and the extent to which society chooses to deny them rights and freedoms available to heterosexuals.

Boo

First of all, by assuming that a person born with no arms will automatically have difficulties in life is discriminatory. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were to say that in public and get beaten to death by a man with no arms (he’d probably use his feet, kung fu style).

Who are you to say that such a person is “objectively disabled” (what the f___ does that mean anyways?) and will have lesser ability than someone with arms? I know individuals who are missing arms who, after hard work, are capable of much more than joe schmoe who has both arms.

Seems like its pretty sick of you to brush aside handicapped people as having “lesser ability”, but to insist that we all recognize that being gay is somehow normal, and natural.

I agree with anonymous, it is a birth defect. Learn to deal with it, and become stronger. But pretending that it is on par with heterosexuality is delusional and stupid

And it’s pretty sick to compare a gay kid to a kid born without arms. Someone missing limbs is objectively disabled and will have problems going through life with less ability than a person with arms. Kids born gay experience only those problems that others choose to impose on them. So why be one of those people?

Boo

Actually, for me it is something to mourn, at least initially. Having a truly homosexual kid (Kinsey 6 with 0 attraction to the opposite sex) is the same as having a kid who was born without arms. Is it a disadvantage in society? Yes. Is it abnormal? Yes, in the sense that it is a deviation from what usually happens (being born with both arms). Is it something I would wish on my child? NO. But if it does happen, I will probably be very sad initially, but I will quickly get over it and support him so that he makes the most out of his life, and lives responsibly.

Yes, I view true homosexuality as a birth defect that I would not wish on the children of my worst enemy. Just as a parent would hope that his friend’s baby is born with both arms intact, it is my wish that no one’s kid is born gay.

Of course, Joe is nowhere near in that league. Whether we like it or not, RT is client-directed. “Ex-gay” practitioners will exist as long as there is a demand for them. The root causes that drive people to this will ultimately have to be addressed partly within the gay community and partly within the wider society so families can see that a gay kid isn’t something to mourn.

Boo

I’m happy to read anything you believe would back that up.

Might I also suggest that Richard Cohen isn’t the best one to ask with regard to his unethical counselling practices.

And who knows: perhaps this type of pressured selling, as well as alignment with social prejudices and a reliance on encouraging gross misinformation is a basic part of most exgay efforts.

There’s a thought.

Further, I am only going on what Mr. Cohen told me so I do not know what the ACA knows but neither do you. I suppose then neither of us can speculate much.