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	Comments on: Boston Globe article on sexual orientation	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:29:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree. The author made it seem like it was a religion vs. science issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. The author made it seem like it was a religion vs. science issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hugh Rutledge		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugh Rutledge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What I found most interesting is the attitude that the authors took that so much research is being done that some day this will inevitably be proven;  and therefore, everyone should take our assumption as proven scientific fact.

They also played very loose with the opinion of Focus on the Family.  There is a range of positions between people chose their sexual identity and sexual identity is genetically determined.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I found most interesting is the attitude that the authors took that so much research is being done that some day this will inevitably be proven;  and therefore, everyone should take our assumption as proven scientific fact.</p>
<p>They also played very loose with the opinion of Focus on the Family.  There is a range of positions between people chose their sexual identity and sexual identity is genetically determined.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Please let me remind people to keep remarks respectful. Strong feelings on this topic are understandable but flaming will get you deleted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please let me remind people to keep remarks respectful. Strong feelings on this topic are understandable but flaming will get you deleted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kaiwai		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kaiwai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This post has been removed by a blog administrator.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post has been removed by a blog administrator.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-297</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-297</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I appreciate Warren&#039;s tireless effort in de-mythifying this whole thing about homosexuality.  As a minister in Asia, I sense there are more and more people agreeing and even gravitating towards this lifestyle.

Just to key off on this article, I agree with the general sentiment that something is inborn.  My theory is that our inborn hormonal combination, as dictated by gene, effect our temperament formation, (i.e. more feminine or musculine),which in turn, create unique nurturing environments, (micro environment)that further enhance our predispostion and shape who we think we are.

So, for example, a boy who is more feminine will choose to play with dolls and other girls, (and create his own micro-environment unique to him).  This UME (Unique Micro Environment) causes other boys to label him names, as well as his own doubts, &quot;why am I so different?&quot;  It is under these two forces of hetero-suggestion and auto-suggestion working strongly together that his little mind is conditioned to the point that he believes he is &quot;different&quot; from the other boys.  Sooner or later, through social forces, (i.e. incidence of sexual abuse, rejection by girl friends, admiration for the talent of other boys, media hype, sexual encounter with another gay, etc), he becomes convinced that this difference &quot;is&quot; homosexuality.

Therefore, I believe that while termperment, personality shaping-hormone, predisposition are inborn, choosing a homosexual lifestyle is NOT.  That is why, as a habit goes, it is possible to &quot;unlearn&quot; it.

Thanks again, Warren, for a resourceful site and your conviction for this important matter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate Warren&#8217;s tireless effort in de-mythifying this whole thing about homosexuality.  As a minister in Asia, I sense there are more and more people agreeing and even gravitating towards this lifestyle.</p>
<p>Just to key off on this article, I agree with the general sentiment that something is inborn.  My theory is that our inborn hormonal combination, as dictated by gene, effect our temperament formation, (i.e. more feminine or musculine),which in turn, create unique nurturing environments, (micro environment)that further enhance our predispostion and shape who we think we are.</p>
<p>So, for example, a boy who is more feminine will choose to play with dolls and other girls, (and create his own micro-environment unique to him).  This UME (Unique Micro Environment) causes other boys to label him names, as well as his own doubts, &#8220;why am I so different?&#8221;  It is under these two forces of hetero-suggestion and auto-suggestion working strongly together that his little mind is conditioned to the point that he believes he is &#8220;different&#8221; from the other boys.  Sooner or later, through social forces, (i.e. incidence of sexual abuse, rejection by girl friends, admiration for the talent of other boys, media hype, sexual encounter with another gay, etc), he becomes convinced that this difference &#8220;is&#8221; homosexuality.</p>
<p>Therefore, I believe that while termperment, personality shaping-hormone, predisposition are inborn, choosing a homosexual lifestyle is NOT.  That is why, as a habit goes, it is possible to &#8220;unlearn&#8221; it.</p>
<p>Thanks again, Warren, for a resourceful site and your conviction for this important matter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[? I&#039;m no U.S. constitutional beak, but isn&#039;t the Constitution about the establishment (or promotion or curtailing...) of religion by government -- not civil rights as we understand between private citizens.

Until very recent times, you could fire a Catholic for being a Catholic (or nominate any other religion). Discrimination based n religion by one citizen to another was legal, and the Constitution was silent on the matter (if you are a Scaliaite). To clear this up, I guess you could ask a Grove City administrator if their hiring/firing practices based on religion are unconstitutional...

Religion has been more recently covered by Civil Rights codes that legislate the behaviour between private citizens -- with noted let out clauses such as that around GCC.

As to the question: I don&#039;t think the two are related in any practical sense.

Nobody denies race being biological. Despite that, racism continues to exist even though race-based protection was an early reason for Civil Rights codes.

Religion and marital status are both behavioural choices. They are covered.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>? I&#8217;m no U.S. constitutional beak, but isn&#8217;t the Constitution about the establishment (or promotion or curtailing&#8230;) of religion by government &#8212; not civil rights as we understand between private citizens.</p>
<p>Until very recent times, you could fire a Catholic for being a Catholic (or nominate any other religion). Discrimination based n religion by one citizen to another was legal, and the Constitution was silent on the matter (if you are a Scaliaite). To clear this up, I guess you could ask a Grove City administrator if their hiring/firing practices based on religion are unconstitutional&#8230;</p>
<p>Religion has been more recently covered by Civil Rights codes that legislate the behaviour between private citizens &#8212; with noted let out clauses such as that around GCC.</p>
<p>As to the question: I don&#8217;t think the two are related in any practical sense.</p>
<p>Nobody denies race being biological. Despite that, racism continues to exist even though race-based protection was an early reason for Civil Rights codes.</p>
<p>Religion and marital status are both behavioural choices. They are covered.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nathan: Religion is not the best comparison since religion is constitutionally protected. But I agree with you that the issue of origins is not necessarily related to one&#039;s views regarding civil rights. My question is aimed at those who do feel the two are connected.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan: Religion is not the best comparison since religion is constitutionally protected. But I agree with you that the issue of origins is not necessarily related to one&#8217;s views regarding civil rights. My question is aimed at those who do feel the two are connected.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nathan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-294</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 05:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-294</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Warren,

Ultimately, issues of &quot;hard wired-ness&quot; are irrelevant in the final analysis, since people of different religions are fully protected with civil rights and all, and religion certainly isn&#039;t hard wired, but acquired through social training.

So even if same sex attractions weren&#039;t hardwired, would gays deserve civil rights? Should gay marriage be legal?

Though I&#039;m an &quot;ex-gay&quot; in the literal sense of the word, my answer to the above two questions would be a resounding &quot;yes.&quot;



Nathan]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Warren,</p>
<p>Ultimately, issues of &#8220;hard wired-ness&#8221; are irrelevant in the final analysis, since people of different religions are fully protected with civil rights and all, and religion certainly isn&#8217;t hard wired, but acquired through social training.</p>
<p>So even if same sex attractions weren&#8217;t hardwired, would gays deserve civil rights? Should gay marriage be legal?</p>
<p>Though I&#8217;m an &#8220;ex-gay&#8221; in the literal sense of the word, my answer to the above two questions would be a resounding &#8220;yes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nathan</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-293</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 05:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-293</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[From the Boston Globe article:

&lt;I&gt;Some advocates of gay marriage argue that proving sexual orientation is inborn would make it easier to frame the debate as simply a matter of civil rights. That could be true, but then again, freedom of religion enjoyed federal protection long before inborn traits like race and sex.&lt;/I&gt;

I am wondering what the impact on civil rights arguments might be if we learn that sexual orientation is hard wired for some men and not others almost never for women.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Boston Globe article:</p>
<p><i>Some advocates of gay marriage argue that proving sexual orientation is inborn would make it easier to frame the debate as simply a matter of civil rights. That could be true, but then again, freedom of religion enjoyed federal protection long before inborn traits like race and sex.</i></p>
<p>I am wondering what the impact on civil rights arguments might be if we learn that sexual orientation is hard wired for some men and not others almost never for women.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-292</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/15/boston-globe-article-on-sexual-orientation/#comment-292</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On EBE, I think the best thing would be refer interested readers to &lt;a href=&quot;http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/dbem/online_pubs.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bem&#039;s page &lt;/A&gt;at Cornell U. All of his work of gender roles and sexual orientation are there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On EBE, I think the best thing would be refer interested readers to <a href="http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/dbem/online_pubs.html" rel="nofollow">Bem&#8217;s page </a>at Cornell U. All of his work of gender roles and sexual orientation are there.</p>
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