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	Comments on: Love in Action origins, Part next	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:02:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Google

Yahoo

:)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google</p>
<p>Yahoo</p>
<p>🙂</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Nathan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;When you know who Colin Cook or Doug McIntyre are, and their history, we can discuss this further. As a word of warning :-) don&#039;t be so quick to defend them --particularly Colin.&quot;

You care to share?

Nathan]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When you know who Colin Cook or Doug McIntyre are, and their history, we can discuss this further. As a word of warning 🙂 don&#8217;t be so quick to defend them &#8211;particularly Colin.&#8221;</p>
<p>You care to share?</p>
<p>Nathan</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-201</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-201</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ok, Way...oh I mean grantdale :)

Man, you are pricey!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, Way&#8230;oh I mean grantdale 🙂</p>
<p>Man, you are pricey!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Please, (PLEASE), don&#039;t call me Wayne, but I&#039;m not doing your work for you.

I know how this works. Far better to prompt, than to give. Easy come, easy go; as they say.

But you&#039;re correct in saying that nothing pops up quickly on the &quot;issue&quot;. Odd, no?

Failing that. I&#039;m available at USD120 per hour... no personal cheques accepted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, (PLEASE), don&#8217;t call me Wayne, but I&#8217;m not doing your work for you.</p>
<p>I know how this works. Far better to prompt, than to give. Easy come, easy go; as they say.</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re correct in saying that nothing pops up quickly on the &#8220;issue&#8221;. Odd, no?</p>
<p>Failing that. I&#8217;m available at USD120 per hour&#8230; no personal cheques accepted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-199</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-199</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am certainly going to look at anything I can find. I have been unable to find much on Doug M. on the web. I will read anything you suggest.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am certainly going to look at anything I can find. I have been unable to find much on Doug M. on the web. I will read anything you suggest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Urgh, sorry Wrren, pressed Post instead of Preview.

What Doug told you is &quot;interesting&quot;. He was married for 15 years, couple of kids etc etc before jumping the fence (during, IMO, an experiment that he got caught bad over).

No interest in women? I think you need to go search for what he said on other occasions -- regardless of what he said to you recently. The web has a long, long memory...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urgh, sorry Wrren, pressed Post instead of Preview.</p>
<p>What Doug told you is &#8220;interesting&#8221;. He was married for 15 years, couple of kids etc etc before jumping the fence (during, IMO, an experiment that he got caught bad over).</p>
<p>No interest in women? I think you need to go search for what he said on other occasions &#8212; regardless of what he said to you recently. The web has a long, long memory&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nathan,

When you know who Colin Cook or Doug McIntyre are, and their history, we can discuss this further. As a word of warning :-) don&#039;t be so quick to defend them -- particularly Colin.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>When you know who Colin Cook or Doug McIntyre are, and their history, we can discuss this further. As a word of warning 🙂 don&#8217;t be so quick to defend them &#8212; particularly Colin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: grantdale		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-197</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grantdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-197</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren,

You may have. Did you believe him?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren,</p>
<p>You may have. Did you believe him?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-195</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-195</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My supervisors in grad school was like your therapist friends Nathan. They are retired now.

Doug M. I have discussed his history with him and there was no sexual interest in women up to a certain adult point in his life and then a process to change and now there is no sexual interest in men.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My supervisors in grad school was like your therapist friends Nathan. They are retired now.</p>
<p>Doug M. I have discussed his history with him and there was no sexual interest in women up to a certain adult point in his life and then a process to change and now there is no sexual interest in men.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Nathan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/08/07/love-in-action-origins-part-next/#comment-194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Even a cursory glance over their histories indicates bisexual orientations -- before, during and after. And, as I hope we realise, bisexuals need not change their sexual orientation to behave as either gay or straight.&quot;

You say that it is possible to detect a  bisexual orientation from a person&#039;s past history/behavior (external observation), but later on, paradoxically, you say that there is a distinct difference between orientation and behavior. I agree with the latter statement, but the former statement is questionable.

Simply put, it is impossible to tell if someone has a bisexual orientation based on their past history, or behavior. It is impossible to tell what anyone&#039;s sexual orientation is based on outward, external actions. A man may be having sex with a woman, but if his fantasies during intercourse are purely about men, and if he needs pure gay fantasies to remain aroused, then he is has a homosexual orientation. He would be a homosexually oriented man who is living bisexually. Different from actually having a bisexual orientation.

So what is the criteria for being bisexual? The most up to date definition is the ability to enjoy sex with both genders. Yet many gay men admit that they have this ability, yet they *choose* to keep the &quot;gay&quot; label.

Having looked at the definition of bisexual orientation, researchers say that self labelling is A component of a fully formed, bisexual orientation, or any sexual orientation, so clearly, there is an element of &quot;I think, therefore I am (bi?)&quot;.

&quot;Because of this, I&#039;m beginning to wonder if you can/will recognise the difference between a change in sexual behaviour (by a bisexual) and a change in sexual orientation?&quot;

How do we measure any of the above? The change in behavior is simple, but the change in orientation is infinitely harder, as researchers do not have a clear definition of what sexual orientation &quot;is.&quot; There is no consistent biological test that can invariably tell all gay men apart from all straight men. All we can go on, at least for now, is subjective self report--&quot;I think, therefore I am (gay).&quot;

In fact, most studies done on sexual orientation have all relied on self report or self labeling.

-Nathan]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Even a cursory glance over their histories indicates bisexual orientations &#8212; before, during and after. And, as I hope we realise, bisexuals need not change their sexual orientation to behave as either gay or straight.&#8221;</p>
<p>You say that it is possible to detect a  bisexual orientation from a person&#8217;s past history/behavior (external observation), but later on, paradoxically, you say that there is a distinct difference between orientation and behavior. I agree with the latter statement, but the former statement is questionable.</p>
<p>Simply put, it is impossible to tell if someone has a bisexual orientation based on their past history, or behavior. It is impossible to tell what anyone&#8217;s sexual orientation is based on outward, external actions. A man may be having sex with a woman, but if his fantasies during intercourse are purely about men, and if he needs pure gay fantasies to remain aroused, then he is has a homosexual orientation. He would be a homosexually oriented man who is living bisexually. Different from actually having a bisexual orientation.</p>
<p>So what is the criteria for being bisexual? The most up to date definition is the ability to enjoy sex with both genders. Yet many gay men admit that they have this ability, yet they *choose* to keep the &#8220;gay&#8221; label.</p>
<p>Having looked at the definition of bisexual orientation, researchers say that self labelling is A component of a fully formed, bisexual orientation, or any sexual orientation, so clearly, there is an element of &#8220;I think, therefore I am (bi?)&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Because of this, I&#8217;m beginning to wonder if you can/will recognise the difference between a change in sexual behaviour (by a bisexual) and a change in sexual orientation?&#8221;</p>
<p>How do we measure any of the above? The change in behavior is simple, but the change in orientation is infinitely harder, as researchers do not have a clear definition of what sexual orientation &#8220;is.&#8221; There is no consistent biological test that can invariably tell all gay men apart from all straight men. All we can go on, at least for now, is subjective self report&#8211;&#8220;I think, therefore I am (gay).&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, most studies done on sexual orientation have all relied on self report or self labeling.</p>
<p>-Nathan</p>
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