I feel sorrow for your inappropriate views which allow you to justify condemning people and judging them…It creates sorrow deep in my heart that you will, unfortunately, hurt so many people in your lifetime by misleading them by interpreting FOR YOUR SELF(ishness) these small verses. Unfortunately, if only Jesus would have plainly backed your judgemental viewpoints, it would indeed give you more of a bass to stand on…but he didn’t. Of course, you may interprate certain things and twist them any way you’d like FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA…of course, you have alot of work to do to by taking even more obvious verses in the bible that appear many more times than anything about homosexuality, however, since the word homosexuality never appeared in the bible, we might question if it at all is referring to what we now know about gay people, who they are, what they’re capable of, etc…of course, you might say that the word homosexuality was used to modernize the message, to make it clearer, so it appears in some bible’s today..however, that clearly is underneathe someone’s agenda…to redefine the original text, replacing it with new terminologies…just as interpretations, over time, have been redefined….

But you know, what it boils down to is this…

If i am a good person, who is good to people, who loves, helps others out, gives to those in need, cares for my neighbor, and will respect others…

then who are you, as a human being, to condemn me? is it your job? maybe. maybe it is. that’s your choice, but what if…what if you come to realize you’re wrong…and then you’ve simply done harm, pointed fingers, placed judgement, and pointed fingers…

“judge not…..” how does the rest of that statement go?

I am learning to follow these messages. it is important, as I know. And like i said, I’m learning from you. It’s great you can share your knowledge, and your dedication.

Saltnlight’s answer:

How do you ‘feel’ true love???
Love is not a feeling, it is an action. Feelings come later and are emotions.

I love you Momo and have no feelings for you at all. My love is there because God first loved me and caused me to want to love you.

How is love shown to others?? In telling them the truth for no other reason other than that God wants them to be His.

You claim that you love the same sex individual, yet I say to you that what you have here is love turned to lust because you have perverted it with unnatural sex. In doing so you are not alone in the judgement of God and His wrath, you have now entered another person into that damnation with you. I ask, is this love?

I think not. It is selfishness magnified.

“you look at the terminology and justifications, and it’s identical to that which is used against gay people.”

Wrong!! the bible is very clear in what it says about men with men and women with women and doing things that are unseemly. It is very clear in all counts and in all verses concerning the behavior of homosexuality where it was not at all clear on the issue of race. That was all due to slave owners who did not want to lose their slave laborers. There are no such persons with no such motives in we who are trying to get equal time to tell of possible change from homosexuality.

As fopr the remainder of your post, you read into what I had to say as though I were blaming you for things I was not. You need to go back and re-read it.

“this kind of thinking will not get good results” was not directed at you Momo but rather the thinking of the parents who put rules before relationship.

I want you to put here just one place in all of Scripture where God has blessed homosexuality. And don’t give me this garbage about David’s love for Jonathan unless you can back it up with proofs. His love for Jonathan bing greater than love for woman is not a case for homosexual love. What it is saying is that his love for Jonathan has not got the fickle or sexual hangups that love for a woman invites. It is pure and wholesome, where David knew that love with woman can be more lust than love. Look at his life, he had many women but his relationship with Jonathan was one of honor and integrity. Jonathan after all would even tell David the plans of his father. What woman would have done that? To try and make this into a homosexual thing is to blaspheme God’s Word.

Momo, what you have written here is just a culmination of junk you have learned from people who want desperately to hang onto their sin. Do not pray to your god for me for my God has already forgiven me. I will pray to the God of Jacob and the Father of lights for you. He will open your eyes Momo.

I wonder where get the idea that it is not in the majority true that gay people are happy, healthy and productive. you obviously do not know many gay people who are apart of society…you obvioulsy have very little contact with gay people, other than those who are already so damaged by the bias and condemnation that you promote, that, sure, of course, they will not be very happy.

I’m sure God will forgive you, though, in your condemnation of others, and your use of biased information, because God forgives, and he will not descriminate against you just because you have, and are making the mistakes that you are making.

I pray that you will have strength to forgive yourself as well, as you will see the happy, productive God given love that gay people have to offer in this world, even though you condemn them with your misuse of the bible.

As far as the “color route”(ouch), I would say, again, you are misusing a very small and selective voice, because it goes both ways. And, of course lets us look at the segment of the population during the civil rights era, and previous to that era, and what they used to descriminate against people of color…you look at the terminology and justifications, and it’s identical to that which is used against gay people.

Of course, we now know that passages in the bible that were used to promote the agenda of those who firmly believed prejudice against blacks was morally “with God” are not used to do so…In the current day and age, however, some people are not able to see that they are doing the same thing today, USING THE BIBLE to promote their agenda. I just feel that it’s unfortunate, but I know that God will forgive you.

As to your comment about “laying the blame at the feet of God”, I’m not laying blame there, I know the God is with us, unfortunately you’ve misinterpreted his messages to condemn people…human beings.

AS for coupling bad parenting with reparative therapy, i’m also not doing that…I’m simply saying that the inappropriate messages of condemnation that are proclaimed by reparative therapists further promote the harmful and dangerous misguidance that leads people to hate, and rejection of human beings.

I know that some people are “helped” by reparative therapy, and In all of my work, I promote that, and honor that choice, and show both sides, including the minority, which happens to be those who are “helped”…However, reparative therapists ignore what they consider the minority…they ignore the constanst testimonies of people who have been harmed, they ignore ALL MAJOR MEDICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL ORGANIZATIONS who warn about the problematic and harmful effects of reparative therapy, and most of all, they simply misinform people about the very factual reality that many many gay people lead wonderful, happy, honest, productive healthy, loving lives…If you can show me A SINGLE REPRATIVE THERAPY organization that shows both viewpoints, offering “all options” as many of them claim to do…then let’s talk a little further about this…

I will honor your truth, I will, I want to and plan to, and have in all that I do…thanks for helping educate me, it is vital we all listen and learn from one another..

I will pray for you, God Loves you!

Again this kind of thinking will not get good results. That is not a reason for comming against the therapy.

You also class ex-gay ministries together with this kind of parenting. That is wrong. For one thing most people know that sexual behavior between two of the same sex is not acceptable behavior. What you have here is total imbalance.

Out of all the major religions in the world not one of them condone this behavior. Oh we have some split offs from all the major religions that try to convince people that it is accepted but this does not change a thing according to doctrine.

What happens between two of the same sex is not love, it is fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

You ask why not let people know they can be happy, healthy etc. Because the majority are not thus. Not only that but we must answer to a higher authority and though one who is gay may be happy as a lark on earth, according to God that is very temporary.

Seeing my brother ready to put his foot into a vipers den and not warning him is what is being done by those who sugar coat what is true.

I see you want to lay the blame at the feet of the ex-gay promoters of reparitive therapy and also at the feet of the God who made the standards by which we are to live.

What a twisted way of thinking. Take away the laws and everyone will be alright!! Baloney, This is ridiculous. Suicide in the homosexual community is due to many things, one of which may be a sense of guilt but that isn’t all.

Cut the straw grasping. If we all shut up today about sin and God’s wrath, this would not change the fact that all of those things are true. That would not lessen the suicide rate in homosexuals.

Don’t even go the color route, homosexuals have angered the black population enough without that. The two aren’t even vaguely similar. Being black is God given, homosexuality is not.

And, if i feel true love for someone of the same sex, what’s your message to me?

OF course LIA has had more graduates than that, I’m only saying that at the time this guy went through the program that’s how many people “graduated” and of course are considered “sucess stories”, however, LIA does not keep in contact with these people, and the 9 of 11 are who this former client knows, and they’re all openly gay. I’ve also talked to youth who’ve been forced into the program, having their parents threaten them with things like financial burden and kicking them out if they do not go, and they end up lying to their parents for ex amount of years becasue they are so scared of what they will do to them. Likewise, Ex-gay ministries take a similar toll. You start with the idea that if you fall in love with someone of the same sex, then you are in sin, and that you’ll have a horrible life…that’s not such a nice thing to tell someone in need. Present all sides…Sure, help those in need, but not allowing people to know that you can be a happy, healthy, productive, loving and loved individual in this world, and be gay…is just abuse, and manipulation.

I truly hope to see all sides, and like I said, I see that people have been helped, but why is it that everytime someone that’s been through these programs talks about it to me they say that, of the people that go through the programs, there’s around a 90% rate of those who go on to lead happy lives as gay people…when you teach people live in fear and shame for who they are…they no doubtably will go thorugh these programs trying as hard as they can to please those involved, and feel loved by those involved, because God knows they need, and deserve love, since society at large tells them otherwise…So they look for that love, but when they leave the programs and realize they only been taught to suppress, and to feel self-hatred..and then realize that people will love them for WHO THEY ARE, not WHO THEY HIDE/HATE/ARE ASHAMED OF, then these people finally are allowed to live free.

I wish you the best, however, for the wouded and devastated people of the world who deserve love for who they are, I must speak.

You have to see that when people attribute the unhappiness, lonliness, suicidal tendencies that gay people just might(as heterosexuals), that they might be more suceptable to these feeling and thoughts because they are told that they are sinners, that they are not “of God”, that they will live miserable lives…they are kicked out of their homes, subjected to violence, and descrimination, they are treated as different….HOW CAN ONE HONESTLY attribute this to being gay…it’s like…hey, if you just cover up your black skin, then you won’t have to face descrimintation…of course, that may be an easier out…but the REAL PROBLEM doesn’t stop until we actually deal with the problem…which is the miseducation, bias, and prejudice.

I wonder when we’ll learn from our embarasing past of descrimintating against human beings.

So ugly is this desire, ugly because it seeks to close down for others their opportunity to exercise their personal rights. We constantly hear the homosexual community gripeing about ‘rights’ and yet here they are stealing the rights of others.

So what if some men fell back into their previous practices? So what if they fell off their “wagons” so to speak. Would there be this much controversy over drunks falling off the wagon?? No!! And why not? Because their fall back into alcohol abuse is not sexual and deliverance from alcohol is not as all inclusive as deliverance from homosexuality.

Here were men who said it could be done and in fact led others to seek help and threw a monkey wrench into the idea that one couldn’t help being gay. The idea that you were born this way went to the wayside with this being the case. It more or less took the legs from the homosexual behavior.

Why wouldn’t the homosexual hate such an idea and want more than anything to discredit the very ones who had been leaders in this therapy??

When I was actively lesbian I hated Anita Bryant and anyone who called my life ‘sin’. As far as I was concerned, I loved the woman I was with and this idea, that one could change threatened me. That was before I came to realise that Christ was real and He followed God. He said, “I do only that which the Father does.”

No, Jesus said nothing bad about homosexuality but what He did not say that was good could fill a book. In speaking of the way God created the human race Jesus was more than clear. Read Matthew 19 and you will see. God created us, male and female, and for this reason man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
For what reason did God make us male and female??? So that the two can come together and be one flesh.

This my unbelieving friend is the very purpose of God’s entire plan. We are the picture of the Bride of Christ. The body of Christ, the church. The mystery of why we come together and why when one part of the body is in pain we all are in pain.

Well, that is deep and I do not expect some to understand that but, homosexuality is sin and can be overcome if we truly want to live for Christ who died for us. This needs to be known, that change is possible and it is horrible to keep it from the very ones who want to change so badly.

Whether you believe it or not He is the only reason you so exist as well.

Once you got to know Him only then would you see more clearly. Right now all you see is what the world has to offer you and nothing beyond that.

I do not appreciate the daggers you throw at me over and over again. However only once have I retaliated with a name for you and that got deleted by admin. Evidently you are being given more rope than I. To that I toast you, Here’s to your necktie party.