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	Comments on: More on Love in Action	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:32:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Saltnlight		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-108</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saltnlight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-108</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my own case there was a lifetime of being in the lesbian behavior before I began to sort out the facts from the foibles.

It is my belief that, when a child is given basic facts about what God has done and why. There will come a time in their life where that person will begin to sense that what they are doing is not what is intended for humans. Then they will seek the truth.

Jesus must be introduced to the child as who He is, loving and protective, not harsh and demanding. After all, a child is a tender being and needs to see God in that way.

This takes patience and mercy as a parent.

I had no parents to do this with me but Christ was introduced into my young life as a loving shepherd holding a lamb in His arms amidst a whole herd of sheep. This was in a large picture hung on the Sunday School wall. That tender love filled face, as it looked down on the lamb in His arms had stuck with me until 1984 and now. This has been the one thing that led me to the Savior back then. Had it not been for a sweet woman who came to our door inviting me to Sunday School I may have never met this Christ.

So, you see, I did not need reparative therapy, all I needed was Christ and the Holy Spirit to bring me out of wrong behavior. Actually, that is the only way anyone can be so changed, no program is going to do it so it will last. The program is but a catalyst no matter what program it may be. The second need for this to work is actually the first, that is a willing heart. If the heart is not willing or is frightened it will not change.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my own case there was a lifetime of being in the lesbian behavior before I began to sort out the facts from the foibles.</p>
<p>It is my belief that, when a child is given basic facts about what God has done and why. There will come a time in their life where that person will begin to sense that what they are doing is not what is intended for humans. Then they will seek the truth.</p>
<p>Jesus must be introduced to the child as who He is, loving and protective, not harsh and demanding. After all, a child is a tender being and needs to see God in that way.</p>
<p>This takes patience and mercy as a parent.</p>
<p>I had no parents to do this with me but Christ was introduced into my young life as a loving shepherd holding a lamb in His arms amidst a whole herd of sheep. This was in a large picture hung on the Sunday School wall. That tender love filled face, as it looked down on the lamb in His arms had stuck with me until 1984 and now. This has been the one thing that led me to the Savior back then. Had it not been for a sweet woman who came to our door inviting me to Sunday School I may have never met this Christ.</p>
<p>So, you see, I did not need reparative therapy, all I needed was Christ and the Holy Spirit to bring me out of wrong behavior. Actually, that is the only way anyone can be so changed, no program is going to do it so it will last. The program is but a catalyst no matter what program it may be. The second need for this to work is actually the first, that is a willing heart. If the heart is not willing or is frightened it will not change.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Saltnlight		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-107</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saltnlight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-107</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Blame falls like dust and settles wherever it finds a receptive surface.

Let&#039;s look at this with eyes that truly see:

We should never apply rules before relationship. I have said that in the past and I say it again.
What do I mean? This; too often when we have learned of how God views a certain thing instead of working on bonding and approaching it in a friendly and loving manner we come at the situation with guns blazing.

Scenario:
Parent hears of child&#039;s sexual confusion, he/she has proclaimed that they are gay. Parent jumps right on the panic wagon and begins demanding the teen gets into a program. Not talking understandingly to the teen who has come out to them but, they&#039;re in a tizzy and hypereacting. Immediate fear sets into this child and their walls of defense go up. No matter how good or meaningful the treatment, there has been damage from the beginning for this child.

Do I promote reparative therapy? Not when it is sought in this manner of, &#039;do iut or else&#039;. Not when it is foisted on a teen who has not been properly prepared for it. Proper prep is when there has been healthy discussion that welcomes the input of the child.

I believe that there is much needed in the way of training families within the church. Being told by your child that they feel they may be gay is a shocking thing to most Christian parents. Pastors need to do their jobs more thoroughly with the family who may be facing this kind of shock.

Too often our over reaction to news that goes against our beliefs does much more harm than necessary. This is where the blame really must go. This same kind of untaught situation creates the Fred Phelps of the world. He has the basic concept but knows nothing about how to use it. How do you treat sinners? Since there is no better or worse sin in God&#039;s vernacular, we are left with following Jesus&#039; example.

Parents need to apply the, &quot;what would Jesus do&quot; to their discipline of their children.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blame falls like dust and settles wherever it finds a receptive surface.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look at this with eyes that truly see:</p>
<p>We should never apply rules before relationship. I have said that in the past and I say it again.<br />
What do I mean? This; too often when we have learned of how God views a certain thing instead of working on bonding and approaching it in a friendly and loving manner we come at the situation with guns blazing.</p>
<p>Scenario:<br />
Parent hears of child&#8217;s sexual confusion, he/she has proclaimed that they are gay. Parent jumps right on the panic wagon and begins demanding the teen gets into a program. Not talking understandingly to the teen who has come out to them but, they&#8217;re in a tizzy and hypereacting. Immediate fear sets into this child and their walls of defense go up. No matter how good or meaningful the treatment, there has been damage from the beginning for this child.</p>
<p>Do I promote reparative therapy? Not when it is sought in this manner of, &#8216;do iut or else&#8217;. Not when it is foisted on a teen who has not been properly prepared for it. Proper prep is when there has been healthy discussion that welcomes the input of the child.</p>
<p>I believe that there is much needed in the way of training families within the church. Being told by your child that they feel they may be gay is a shocking thing to most Christian parents. Pastors need to do their jobs more thoroughly with the family who may be facing this kind of shock.</p>
<p>Too often our over reaction to news that goes against our beliefs does much more harm than necessary. This is where the blame really must go. This same kind of untaught situation creates the Fred Phelps of the world. He has the basic concept but knows nothing about how to use it. How do you treat sinners? Since there is no better or worse sin in God&#8217;s vernacular, we are left with following Jesus&#8217; example.</p>
<p>Parents need to apply the, &#8220;what would Jesus do&#8221; to their discipline of their children.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Saltnlight		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-106</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saltnlight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-106</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This post has been removed by the author.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post has been removed by the author.</p>
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		<title>
		By: orionsbelt		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-105</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[orionsbelt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-105</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[leave it to Smid to do something as idiotic as this. What a moron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>leave it to Smid to do something as idiotic as this. What a moron</p>
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		<title>
		By: nojam75		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nojam75]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2005/07/17/more-on-love-in-action/#comment-104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DL, I can&#039;t even find the comments you are referring to, but I assume they exist.  Somehow you went through the 30+ pages of supportive comments and decided that these two comments were the most representative.

Secondly, these juvenile statements seem to express empathy with Zach&#039;s own statements.  Who wouldn&#039;t &lt;I&gt;feel&lt;/I&gt; like killing someone who has wronged and imprisoned them?  However, Zach&#039;s own post was very careful to differentiate his &lt;I&gt;feelings&lt;/I&gt; and actual intentions.  He also express regrets having these feelings: &lt;I&gt;&quot;It&#039;s so horrible. This is what it&#039;s doing to me... I have this horrible feeling all of the time...&quot;&lt;/I&gt;.

DL, instead of trying polarize this issue into a pro-gay/anti-gay debate, why not concentrate on the real issues.  Is it ethical, effective, and helpful for Zach to be forced into an ex-gay program?  Are LIA, Rev. Smid and Zach&#039;s parent sincere in their desire to help Zach or do they have ulterior motives of defending/promoting their reputations and faith?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DL, I can&#8217;t even find the comments you are referring to, but I assume they exist.  Somehow you went through the 30+ pages of supportive comments and decided that these two comments were the most representative.</p>
<p>Secondly, these juvenile statements seem to express empathy with Zach&#8217;s own statements.  Who wouldn&#8217;t <i>feel</i> like killing someone who has wronged and imprisoned them?  However, Zach&#8217;s own post was very careful to differentiate his <i>feelings</i> and actual intentions.  He also express regrets having these feelings: <i>&#8220;It&#8217;s so horrible. This is what it&#8217;s doing to me&#8230; I have this horrible feeling all of the time&#8230;&#8221;</i>.</p>
<p>DL, instead of trying polarize this issue into a pro-gay/anti-gay debate, why not concentrate on the real issues.  Is it ethical, effective, and helpful for Zach to be forced into an ex-gay program?  Are LIA, Rev. Smid and Zach&#8217;s parent sincere in their desire to help Zach or do they have ulterior motives of defending/promoting their reputations and faith?</p>
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