Right Wing Watch posted a video clip of Rick Joyner telling his audience that the only hope for America is a takeover of the government by the military. Watch the clip:
This clip is taken from his 20 minute sermon titled, “Has Democracy Failed.” Curious about the context of this clip, I watched the entire talk and found that the context, while at times confusing, is consistent with the plain meaning of his words. I can’t embed it here but for those who want to see fear mongering done well, I recommend you watch it. Joyner, who leads the Oak Initiative, very calmly tells his audience that the republic is doomed because people aren’t religious anymore and because of the 17th Amendment, we elect our Senators via popular vote. Prior to the passage of the 17th Amendment, state legislatures appointed Senators.
Then he says that things are so bad that our only hope is a military takeover. To catch the context of the RWW clip, go to about 7:40 into the video. At 7:50, Joyner says:
I believe our only hope is a military takeover, martial law and that the crucial, most crucial element of that is who the marshal is going to be. I believe there are noble leaders in our military that love the republic and love everything we stand for, and they could seize the government. I’m not advocating this, I’m just telling you what could happen. They could seize it and help restore the foundations, restore the Constitution.
On one hand he says he is not advocating it, but on the other hand, he says that the takeover is our “only hope.” I think most people would get the message that he hopes it happens and thinks it should “to restore the Constitution.”
The rest of the video is a rambling explanation that a third great awakening is coming somehow and some revisionist history involving Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.
Rick Joyner is kind of a big deal in dominionist circles. Look at the members of his Oak Initiative board. You will find some influential and visible leaders of evangelical groups. A person of his stature calling for martial law and military takeover is a frightening development. I hope Christian media and his peers call him out on this irresponsible rhetoric.
Isn’t “Morningstar” an English translation of Lucifer?
That board is a who’s who of the charismatics the John MacArthur camp likes to criticize. Jacobs, Engle, etc.
Gloom & doom always brings in the dollars….
On one hand he says he is not advocating it, but on the other hand, he says that the takeover is our “only hope.”
He’s speaking theologically, eschatologically, theoretically–not politically. Yes, it’s wack, but it’s not dangerous.
for those who want to see fear mongering done well
Indeed, you’re doing a very good job of it. 😉
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/AyeshaAhmed41220.htm
It’s the same as Muslims who believe the world will someday choose Islam. I do take the peaceful ones at their word that they won’t try to impose it by force, nor is there any evidence Christian Reconstructionists are planning to do so either.
This needs to have a light shined on it.
The video clip has been removed. Going to the full video is still ok.
Interesting sermon. Not entirely a well spoken man, he would do well to write out his thoughts first.
He deserves some kudos.
One refreshing comment I noticed was his statement rejecting the idea Obama is intentionally driving the country toward destruction. And his willing admittance that the Native Americans were mistreated under United States rule. Most revisionists downplay or ignore that aspect of our history.
His comment about the military being the ‘only hope’ is stated far too loosely. By that I mean if that is the ONLY hope then, advocating it or not, that’s what must happen. He doesn’t offer any alternatives.
In fact, the whole thing is largely ambiguous. I may be inclined to agree with him, but he doesn’t mention any specific symptoms of said decline. I can only guess what he considers signs of degradation. Thus I and all other viewers must fill in those blanks; and there is plenty to fill them in with.
The biggest issue I have with this is the same I have with all ‘Christian Nation’, advocates.
What would a ‘Christian Nation’ look like?
If Tom is correct, and the ‘Christian Reconstructionists [aren’t] planning…to impose [Christianity] by force.’ than what’s the purpose of a Christian Nation? What would change from the current state of things? If a Christian Nation means Christians should receive preferential treatment as far as the First Amendment is concerned, what would that preferential treatment consist of? I suspect telling fellow Americans that they are not obligated to profess Christian faith but they must live by all the tenants of Christianity won’t be seen as any less oppressive. That would also indirectly imply that only Christians are ‘full’ Americans.
Again, we can only vaguely gather what that ‘Christian Nation’ means to them by their current actions to ‘return us’ to it. And by looking at some of the ‘religious freedom’ legislation attempting to be passed by the more socially conservative reps, I can already see what groups would be the first to feel the brunt of that ‘Christian’ Nation.
Tom, it’s cowardly to hide fascism behind religion. History is replete with examples of religion being used to justify political extremism.
In this country it’s perfectly legal to call for a revolution. The appropriate response to odious speech isn’t censorship; it’s more speech. That’s a principle that Thomas Jefferson established. For you to call the author this blog a fear monger for following Jefferson’s principles is dishonest and cowardly.
‘Goodness’ can never be imposed. This is where all religious fundamentalists go wrong.
‘Goodness’ must be chosen; thus freedom is a prerequisite of ‘goodness’.
Winston Churchill said: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” That’s about right, I’d say – because at least people are given the opportunity to choose good.
I see this as part of ‘the last gasp’ of dying breed (in ‘the West’ at least); people will sometimes kick and scream when they realize that their days are numbered. That doesn’t mean it’s not very serious, and I’m most relieved by the very different ‘mood music’ coming from the likes of Pope Francis.
‘Goodness’ can never be imposed. This is where all religious fundamentalists go wrong.
‘Goodness’ must be chosen; thus freedom is a prerequisite of ‘goodness’.
Winston Churchill said: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” That’s about right, I’d say – because at least people are given the opportunity to choose good.
That board is a who’s who of the charismatics the John MacArthur camp likes to criticize. Jacobs, Engle, etc.
The video clip has been removed. Going to the full video is still ok.
Interesting sermon. Not entirely a well spoken man, he would do well to write out his thoughts first.
He deserves some kudos.
One refreshing comment I noticed was his statement rejecting the idea Obama is intentionally driving the country toward destruction. And his willing admittance that the Native Americans were mistreated under United States rule. Most revisionists downplay or ignore that aspect of our history.
His comment about the military being the ‘only hope’ is stated far too loosely. By that I mean if that is the ONLY hope then, advocating it or not, that’s what must happen. He doesn’t offer any alternatives.
In fact, the whole thing is largely ambiguous. I may be inclined to agree with him, but he doesn’t mention any specific symptoms of said decline. I can only guess what he considers signs of degradation. Thus I and all other viewers must fill in those blanks; and there is plenty to fill them in with.
The biggest issue I have with this is the same I have with all ‘Christian Nation’, advocates.
What would a ‘Christian Nation’ look like?
If Tom is correct, and the ‘Christian Reconstructionists [aren’t] planning…to impose [Christianity] by force.’ than what’s the purpose of a Christian Nation? What would change from the current state of things? If a Christian Nation means Christians should receive preferential treatment as far as the First Amendment is concerned, what would that preferential treatment consist of? I suspect telling fellow Americans that they are not obligated to profess Christian faith but they must live by all the tenants of Christianity won’t be seen as any less oppressive. That would also indirectly imply that only Christians are ‘full’ Americans.
Again, we can only vaguely gather what that ‘Christian Nation’ means to them by their current actions to ‘return us’ to it. And by looking at some of the ‘religious freedom’ legislation attempting to be passed by the more socially conservative reps, I can already see what groups would be the first to feel the brunt of that ‘Christian’ Nation.
Please consider this as well.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2013/10/2/142750/172
Isn’t “Morningstar” an English translation of Lucifer?
Tom, it’s cowardly to hide fascism behind religion. History is replete with examples of religion being used to justify political extremism.
In this country it’s perfectly legal to call for a revolution. The appropriate response to odious speech isn’t censorship; it’s more speech. That’s a principle that Thomas Jefferson established. For you to call the author this blog a fear monger for following Jefferson’s principles is dishonest and cowardly.
Please consider this as well.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2013/10/2/142750/172
Gloom & doom always brings in the dollars….
I see this as part of ‘the last gasp’ of dying breed (in ‘the West’ at least); people will sometimes kick and scream when they realize that their days are numbered. That doesn’t mean it’s not very serious, and I’m most relieved by the very different ‘mood music’ coming from the likes of Pope Francis.
On one hand he says he is not advocating it, but on the other hand, he says that the takeover is our “only hope.”
He’s speaking theologically, eschatologically, theoretically–not politically. Yes, it’s wack, but it’s not dangerous.
for those who want to see fear mongering done well
Indeed, you’re doing a very good job of it. 😉
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/AyeshaAhmed41220.htm
It’s the same as Muslims who believe the world will someday choose Islam. I do take the peaceful ones at their word that they won’t try to impose it by force, nor is there any evidence Christian Reconstructionists are planning to do so either.
Christian Media? Many of them will, I expect. Some of them because it’s telegraphing the punch – or putsch – they desire. Most because they’re aghast at the concept.
His peers? Forget it. Unless you include “peers” to mean non-Dominionists. His peers, his crowd, just want to make sure it’s the right kind of people taking over. Bible-believing people. They have no truck with a “democracy” where Heretics, Apostates, and Atheists can have any influence, let alone vote or hold office.
I don’t see it as dangerous. No more so now than it ever was anyway. Maybe less so, now that it’s more in the open.
This needs to have a light shined on it.
Christian Media? Many of them will, I expect. Some of them because it’s telegraphing the punch – or putsch – they desire. Most because they’re aghast at the concept.
His peers? Forget it. Unless you include “peers” to mean non-Dominionists. His peers, his crowd, just want to make sure it’s the right kind of people taking over. Bible-believing people. They have no truck with a “democracy” where Heretics, Apostates, and Atheists can have any influence, let alone vote or hold office.
I don’t see it as dangerous. No more so now than it ever was anyway. Maybe less so, now that it’s more in the open.