Ron Paul quietly removes Phil Kayser endorsement from website; Kayser removes link to his death penalty book

UPDATE (12/29): As commenter Jessica Naomi points out, now Kayser has removed a link to his death penalty booklet. It is still hosted on his website read it here. Even though I think Paul should have to answer for the glowing words about Rev. Kayser, I can understand Paul’s action to remove the endorsement from his website. However, I am puzzled that Kayser would make his book harder to find.

After Talking Points Memo and Huffington Post covered Christian reconstructionist Phil Kayser’s endorsement of Ron Paul (first reported here), the Paul campaign has quietly taken the controversial press release from their website.

The Google cache is here, a screen capture is here and a pdf of the page is here.

The TPM reporters called Kayser and he acknowledged the beliefs he posted in his book defending the death penalty.

Related:

44 thoughts on “Ron Paul quietly removes Phil Kayser endorsement from website; Kayser removes link to his death penalty book”

  1. Str8GM – If the Nazi Party says something true, it’s still true. I believe that MR is not actually lying when they’re crowing about this document, nor the list of signatories to it.

    The document itself contains several statements I believe on the evidence to be false. I’m interested in the mental health professionals who appear to believe such phlogiston.

    p.s. Still trying to trace that Academic – most Uni administrations are closed at the moment.

  2. If one cannot stand up for what you believe in the light of day, then what does that say about one’s convictions and faith? Glad I downloaded Kayser’s “book”/screed now.

  3. What occurred to me is that there is one social services agency in Brooklyn that is Jewish based and they got those staff members to sign. There were a whole boatload of Social Workers from Brooklyn who had signed at the end.

    There are, of course, tons of Jews in all five boroughs of NYC, but if I’m not mistaken, the largest concentration of Haredim (aka “Ultra-Orthodox Jews”, or more jocularly, “the black-hat crowd”) is in Brooklyn.

    Looking over the list of signatories, I see that they are broken into several categories, and there is a section of Hassidic rabbis (also “Ultra-Orthodox”), who are nearly all in Brooklyn. The “Chabad” section represents yet another branch of “Ultra-Orthodox”, although none of these names are from NYC. And several of the yeshivas (Jewish religious schools) listed are haredi, according to Google.

    On the other hand, I assume that the names listed under “Yeshiva University”, as well as many of the “Mental Health Professionals”, are Modern Orthodox — although I could be mistaken. (My impression is that the Haredim totally break the familiar stereotype of Jewish parents who push their sons to become doctors — because all that time spent reading textbooks full of secular science is time NOT spent studying the Torah and Talmud, doncha know! So I would guess that the M.D.s and Ph.D.s are predominantly Modern Orthodox.)

    Anyway, I’m a bit curious to know what the actually breakdown was among the signatures between “Modern Orthodox” and “Ultra-Orthodox” — although generally there’s no way to tell just by looking at the names of the individuals or the congregations they’re affiliated with.

  4. Quick follow-up to my previous comment (in moderation) — I remember once reading on the Innerwebs that somewhere in the Talmud, a rabbinical commentator asserts that in G-d’s eyes, Gentile lesbianism is roughly on a par with a Jewish husband and wife getting divorced: i.e., something quite regrettable, but in no sense a “crime against nature.”

  5. Emily and Throbert can you help me out here? I have an understanding, which is probably more of a misunderstanding, that the Torah for very far right Jewish groups takes a very minor place as compared to the Talmud.

    I would defer to Emily on this since she’s Jewish and I’m not, but as far as I know, it’s not true at all that highly conservative Jews place more weight on the Talmud than on the Torah — after all, the whole point of the Talmud is to help illuminate and explain the Torah. I think it might be more correct to say that some liberal schools of Judaism, and particularly Reform Judaism, tend to de-emphasize Talmudic study in comparison to traditionalist right-wing Jews.

    It seems to me, with my limited understanding, that this emphasis on the Torah by the creators and signers of this document is being used only as an enticement or gateway to Christian groups.

    On this point, however, I’m sure you’re correct — since the Torah (i.e., the first five books of the Bible) is considered by Christians to be divinely inspired and authoritative, but the Talmud is not.

    Then again, since the point of this effort was to attack homosexuals specifically by appealing to the prejudices of conservative heterosexuals, the signatories might have wished to avoid drawing attention to the fact that the Talmud condemns solo masturbation by males (including straight guys) far more explicitly than the Torah does, and almost as harshly as Leviticus condemns anal sodomy between two men.

    Granted, the Talmud doesn’t advocate the death penalty for male JO, but one Talmudic passage recommends that:

    “in the case of a man, the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off.”

    (The Talmudic prohibition on masturbation is based on the story of Onan spilling his seed on the ground — thus female masturbation isn’t serious enough a sin to be worthy of amputation, because no seed is spilled.)

    P.S. Just try reading that Mass Resistance statement again, but mentally substitute “masturbation” for every reference to “homosexuality”, e.g.:

    The Biblical understanding that no one is “born gay a bologna-spanker” coincides with mental health experts who are not intimidated by political correctness. The only Torah-approved course of action with regard to homosexuality Portnoy’s complaint is psychological therapy coupled with repentance…

  6. Oh, my mistake, I was thinking of the verse where a woman accidentally grabs a man’s genitals.

    But yes, Throbert, I’m sure it was hyperbole.

    Additionally, by the time of the first century, the use of the death penalty had so many requirements attached to it that the Talmud rendered it practically unenforceable.

    Judaism wasn’t as cold and compassionless as the Christian gospels make it out to be back then.

  7. “By the way, I’m fairly sure that bit in the Talmud about chopping off the hand that a dude masturbates with is merely hyperbole, and NOT some sort of literally binding law!”

    You’re right Throbert, it’s an expression that calls for monetary compensation. The verse in Exodus about “eye for eye” is the same thing – monetary compensation.

    If Christians weren’t so ignorant about Judaism and our Jewish Scriptures they claim to love so much they might see how truly flexible and adaptable the Tree of Life is. Pity.

  8. Hi, Emily!

    While I was out getting some groceries, I had another thought on that “Torah” document from Mass Resistance, and Teresa’s question about why they cited the Torah but not the Talmud.

    Obviously, their aim was to make a sweeping condemnation of homosexuality in all forms. But the Talmud’s coverage of the subject is specific and nuanced, and doesn’t lend itself so easily to the kind of blanket statement they wanted.

    First, the Talmud primarily addresses and condemns homosexual transgressions by Jews, and is less concerned with homosexuality among Gentiles, except insofar as to remind Jews that homosexual acts ought to be shunned as an “idolatrous Gentile custom”.

    Second, the Talmud treats lesbian acts as a less grave offense than male homosexual acts — IIRC, a Jewish woman caught in lesbianism was merely disqualified from marrying a man of the kohanim priestly lineage, but under no circumstances would she be liable for the death penalty. (Unless, I suppose, there were major aggravating factors, such as having lesbian sex for money on the altar of Aphrodite, or something like that.)

    Third, the Talmud clearly specifies eyewitness evidence of “penetration” as a necessary condition for applying the death penalty to male homosexual offenses as per Lev. 20:13 (the qualifying phrase “as with a woman” being interpreted to mean “penetrative in the manner of vaginal intercourse”). So by implication, non-penetrative male homosex, such as mutual masturbation, is a significantly “less worse” transgression; at least it wasn’t a capital offense.

    (Admittedly, intentional “spilling of seed” in a non-procreative way is [duh!] generally the goal of all male homosexual acts, so these are still serious sins based on the Talmudic analysis of the Onan story — but not necessarily a violation of Leviticus.)

    So — different treatment of Jewish and Gentile homosex; different treatment of male and female homosex; and male/male anal sodomy (between Jewish men) singled out from all other same-sex acts in its own special category of awfulness. Not very blanket-y.

  9. What occurred to me is that there is one social services agency in Brooklyn that is Jewish based and they got those staff members to sign. There were a whole boatload of Social Workers from Brooklyn who had signed at the end.

    There are, of course, tons of Jews in all five boroughs of NYC, but if I’m not mistaken, the largest concentration of Haredim (aka “Ultra-Orthodox Jews”, or more jocularly, “the black-hat crowd”) is in Brooklyn.

    Looking over the list of signatories, I see that they are broken into several categories, and there is a section of Hassidic rabbis (also “Ultra-Orthodox”), who are nearly all in Brooklyn. The “Chabad” section represents yet another branch of “Ultra-Orthodox”, although none of these names are from NYC. And several of the yeshivas (Jewish religious schools) listed are haredi, according to Google.

    On the other hand, I assume that the names listed under “Yeshiva University”, as well as many of the “Mental Health Professionals”, are Modern Orthodox — although I could be mistaken. (My impression is that the Haredim totally break the familiar stereotype of Jewish parents who push their sons to become doctors — because all that time spent reading textbooks full of secular science is time NOT spent studying the Torah and Talmud, doncha know! So I would guess that the M.D.s and Ph.D.s are predominantly Modern Orthodox.)

    Anyway, I’m a bit curious to know what the actually breakdown was among the signatures between “Modern Orthodox” and “Ultra-Orthodox” — although generally there’s no way to tell just by looking at the names of the individuals or the congregations they’re affiliated with.

  10. Quick follow-up to my previous comment (in moderation) — I remember once reading on the Innerwebs that somewhere in the Talmud, a rabbinical commentator asserts that in G-d’s eyes, Gentile lesbianism is roughly on a par with a Jewish husband and wife getting divorced: i.e., something quite regrettable, but in no sense a “crime against nature.”

  11. Hi, Emily!

    While I was out getting some groceries, I had another thought on that “Torah” document from Mass Resistance, and Teresa’s question about why they cited the Torah but not the Talmud.

    Obviously, their aim was to make a sweeping condemnation of homosexuality in all forms. But the Talmud’s coverage of the subject is specific and nuanced, and doesn’t lend itself so easily to the kind of blanket statement they wanted.

    First, the Talmud primarily addresses and condemns homosexual transgressions by Jews, and is less concerned with homosexuality among Gentiles, except insofar as to remind Jews that homosexual acts ought to be shunned as an “idolatrous Gentile custom”.

    Second, the Talmud treats lesbian acts as a less grave offense than male homosexual acts — IIRC, a Jewish woman caught in lesbianism was merely disqualified from marrying a man of the kohanim priestly lineage, but under no circumstances would she be liable for the death penalty. (Unless, I suppose, there were major aggravating factors, such as having lesbian sex for money on the altar of Aphrodite, or something like that.)

    Third, the Talmud clearly specifies eyewitness evidence of “penetration” as a necessary condition for applying the death penalty to male homosexual offenses as per Lev. 20:13 (the qualifying phrase “as with a woman” being interpreted to mean “penetrative in the manner of vaginal intercourse”). So by implication, non-penetrative male homosex, such as mutual masturbation, is a significantly “less worse” transgression; at least it wasn’t a capital offense.

    (Admittedly, intentional “spilling of seed” in a non-procreative way is [duh!] generally the goal of all male homosexual acts, so these are still serious sins based on the Talmudic analysis of the Onan story — but not necessarily a violation of Leviticus.)

    So — different treatment of Jewish and Gentile homosex; different treatment of male and female homosex; and male/male anal sodomy (between Jewish men) singled out from all other same-sex acts in its own special category of awfulness. Not very blanket-y.

  12. Oh, my mistake, I was thinking of the verse where a woman accidentally grabs a man’s genitals.

    But yes, Throbert, I’m sure it was hyperbole.

    Additionally, by the time of the first century, the use of the death penalty had so many requirements attached to it that the Talmud rendered it practically unenforceable.

    Judaism wasn’t as cold and compassionless as the Christian gospels make it out to be back then.

  13. “By the way, I’m fairly sure that bit in the Talmud about chopping off the hand that a dude masturbates with is merely hyperbole, and NOT some sort of literally binding law!”

    You’re right Throbert, it’s an expression that calls for monetary compensation. The verse in Exodus about “eye for eye” is the same thing – monetary compensation.

    If Christians weren’t so ignorant about Judaism and our Jewish Scriptures they claim to love so much they might see how truly flexible and adaptable the Tree of Life is. Pity.

  14. @ Throbert

    We used to have a joke about one T. Blair for when he was ‘going over the top’ with his prime ministerial rhetoric:

    Q: What is the difference between Tony Blair and God?

    A: God does not think he is Tony Blair.

  15. By the way, I’m fairly sure that bit in the Talmud about chopping off the hand that a dude masturbates with is merely hyperbole, and NOT some sort of literally binding law!

  16. Emily and Throbert can you help me out here? I have an understanding, which is probably more of a misunderstanding, that the Torah for very far right Jewish groups takes a very minor place as compared to the Talmud.

    I would defer to Emily on this since she’s Jewish and I’m not, but as far as I know, it’s not true at all that highly conservative Jews place more weight on the Talmud than on the Torah — after all, the whole point of the Talmud is to help illuminate and explain the Torah. I think it might be more correct to say that some liberal schools of Judaism, and particularly Reform Judaism, tend to de-emphasize Talmudic study in comparison to traditionalist right-wing Jews.

    It seems to me, with my limited understanding, that this emphasis on the Torah by the creators and signers of this document is being used only as an enticement or gateway to Christian groups.

    On this point, however, I’m sure you’re correct — since the Torah (i.e., the first five books of the Bible) is considered by Christians to be divinely inspired and authoritative, but the Talmud is not.

    Then again, since the point of this effort was to attack homosexuals specifically by appealing to the prejudices of conservative heterosexuals, the signatories might have wished to avoid drawing attention to the fact that the Talmud condemns solo masturbation by males (including straight guys) far more explicitly than the Torah does, and almost as harshly as Leviticus condemns anal sodomy between two men.

    Granted, the Talmud doesn’t advocate the death penalty for male JO, but one Talmudic passage recommends that:

    “in the case of a man, the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off.”

    (The Talmudic prohibition on masturbation is based on the story of Onan spilling his seed on the ground — thus female masturbation isn’t serious enough a sin to be worthy of amputation, because no seed is spilled.)

    P.S. Just try reading that Mass Resistance statement again, but mentally substitute “masturbation” for every reference to “homosexuality”, e.g.:

    The Biblical understanding that no one is “born gay a bologna-spanker” coincides with mental health experts who are not intimidated by political correctness. The only Torah-approved course of action with regard to homosexuality Portnoy’s complaint is psychological therapy coupled with repentance…

  17. From the Mass Resistance statement linked by Zoe:

    The document’s list of signers includes well-known figures in the mental health field as well as a pantheon of major figures in Orthodox religious circles.

    *snicker*

    I’ve always suspected that some religious conservatives can’t tell the difference between themselves and God…

  18. Jessica Naomi, thanks for that tip off about the booklet that has the quote about the death penalty for sexual minorities being removed from Dr. Kayser’s website. Good work!

  19. Many thanks Zoe for the helping hand.

    It is interesting Zoe that you linked to that Torah document as I had read it a fews days prior and had actually looked up a few of the health care professionals. What struck me about the signators in the health care section is that so many of them do not list themselves as medical doctors or PhD but as social workers, with most of them in Brooklyn NY.

    Hey wait a minute! I wish I would have taken a screen short the other day because as I look down the list of Health care providers today it seems to me that there are fewer now than there were a few days ago. I recall a few days ago that the ending signators were one right after the other, a bunch of social workers in Brooklyn. I could be wrong but I am not seeing those today. What occurred to me is that there is one social services agency in Brooklyn that is Jewish based and they got those staff members to sign. There were a whole boatload of Social Workers from Brooklyn who had signed at the end. Again I could be wrong, but this is my overall impression.

  20. Str8GM – If the Nazi Party says something true, it’s still true. I believe that MR is not actually lying when they’re crowing about this document, nor the list of signatories to it.

    The document itself contains several statements I believe on the evidence to be false. I’m interested in the mental health professionals who appear to believe such phlogiston.

    p.s. Still trying to trace that Academic – most Uni administrations are closed at the moment.

  21. @ Throbert

    We used to have a joke about one T. Blair for when he was ‘going over the top’ with his prime ministerial rhetoric:

    Q: What is the difference between Tony Blair and God?

    A: God does not think he is Tony Blair.

  22. By the way, I’m fairly sure that bit in the Talmud about chopping off the hand that a dude masturbates with is merely hyperbole, and NOT some sort of literally binding law!

  23. From the Mass Resistance statement linked by Zoe:

    The document’s list of signers includes well-known figures in the mental health field as well as a pantheon of major figures in Orthodox religious circles.

    *snicker*

    I’ve always suspected that some religious conservatives can’t tell the difference between themselves and God…

  24. Jessica Naomi, thanks for that tip off about the booklet that has the quote about the death penalty for sexual minorities being removed from Dr. Kayser’s website. Good work!

  25. Many thanks Zoe for the helping hand.

    It is interesting Zoe that you linked to that Torah document as I had read it a fews days prior and had actually looked up a few of the health care professionals. What struck me about the signators in the health care section is that so many of them do not list themselves as medical doctors or PhD but as social workers, with most of them in Brooklyn NY.

    Hey wait a minute! I wish I would have taken a screen short the other day because as I look down the list of Health care providers today it seems to me that there are fewer now than there were a few days ago. I recall a few days ago that the ending signators were one right after the other, a bunch of social workers in Brooklyn. I could be wrong but I am not seeing those today. What occurred to me is that there is one social services agency in Brooklyn that is Jewish based and they got those staff members to sign. There were a whole boatload of Social Workers from Brooklyn who had signed at the end. Again I could be wrong, but this is my overall impression.

  26. If one cannot stand up for what you believe in the light of day, then what does that say about one’s convictions and faith? Glad I downloaded Kayser’s “book”/screed now.

  27. Zoe, regarding

    MassResistence

    they are a designated ***HATE GROUP*** by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Preeminent organization that tracks HATE GROUPS like the KKK, White Supremacists etc.

    Here just save this bookmark and when you see something really over the top go see if they are a designated HATE GROUP

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay/active_hate_groups

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay

    In the link below the groups that have a * before their name have mate the HATE GROUP list, the ones without the * are on a watch list.

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners

  28. I love how quietly these things are usually done. They trumpet this great endorsement they got. Then they realize what terrible baggage comes with that endorsement and they try to make it quietly disappear. Just once, I’d like to see one of these people have the integrity and courage to just as vocally say, “You know what? We just realized something about the guy who endorsed us, and it makes us uncomfortable. We’re not about that. So we’d like to say, ‘Thanks for the endorsement, but no thanks.'”

    This “quietly erasing it ever happened” business just strikes me as weaselly.

  29. Zoe, regarding

    MassResistence

    they are a designated ***HATE GROUP*** by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Preeminent organization that tracks HATE GROUPS like the KKK, White Supremacists etc.

    Here just save this bookmark and when you see something really over the top go see if they are a designated HATE GROUP

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay/active_hate_groups

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay

    In the link below the groups that have a * before their name have mate the HATE GROUP list, the ones without the * are on a watch list.

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners

  30. Zoe, thanks for the link. The next signers to this Document will most likely be members of NARTH, or NARTH, as a whole. The most egregious piece of this document is the emphasis on ‘change’ of behavior, which certainly appears to be directly implied as one of gay to str8.

    This document strikes me as close to The Manhattan Declaration in some ways. The war is on, big time … within religious groups themselves, and across religions.

    Emily and Throbert can you help me out here? I have an understanding, which is probably more of a misunderstanding, that the Torah for very far right Jewish groups takes a very minor place as compared to the Talmud. It seems to me, with my limited understanding, that this emphasis on the Torah by the creators and signers of this document is being used only as an enticement or gateway to Christian groups.

  31. I love how quietly these things are usually done. They trumpet this great endorsement they got. Then they realize what terrible baggage comes with that endorsement and they try to make it quietly disappear. Just once, I’d like to see one of these people have the integrity and courage to just as vocally say, “You know what? We just realized something about the guy who endorsed us, and it makes us uncomfortable. We’re not about that. So we’d like to say, ‘Thanks for the endorsement, but no thanks.'”

    This “quietly erasing it ever happened” business just strikes me as weaselly.

  32. Zoe, thanks for the link. The next signers to this Document will most likely be members of NARTH, or NARTH, as a whole. The most egregious piece of this document is the emphasis on ‘change’ of behavior, which certainly appears to be directly implied as one of gay to str8.

    This document strikes me as close to The Manhattan Declaration in some ways. The war is on, big time … within religious groups themselves, and across religions.

    Emily and Throbert can you help me out here? I have an understanding, which is probably more of a misunderstanding, that the Torah for very far right Jewish groups takes a very minor place as compared to the Talmud. It seems to me, with my limited understanding, that this emphasis on the Torah by the creators and signers of this document is being used only as an enticement or gateway to Christian groups.

  33. I have a question that doesn’t seem to have a topic here but I’ll ask it anyway. Since Ron Paul would close down the Federal Dept of Education, what about student loans? Does this then mean no more Pell Grants & other Federally backed student grants and loans? If this is the case, no more student loans, can you imagine how stratified our country will become?

  34. I have a question that doesn’t seem to have a topic here but I’ll ask it anyway. Since Ron Paul would close down the Federal Dept of Education, what about student loans? Does this then mean no more Pell Grants & other Federally backed student grants and loans? If this is the case, no more student loans, can you imagine how stratified our country will become?

Comments are closed.