In a comment posted here yesterday and at Towleroad, some potential new wrinkles in the Dakota Ary case were asserted. Ary is the high school Freshman, represented by Liberty Counsel, who was briefly suspended over comments made in a Fort Worth High School German class. The initial report was that Ary said he was a Christian and believed homosexuality to be wrong. However, a GLBT group is now claiming to have spoken to the teacher involved, Kristopher Franks, who paints a picture of harassment on the part of Ary and other classmates against the teacher due to their perception that the teacher is gay.
I will state the obvious: I have no idea what the real story is. I post this because the report from the teacher, if accurate, would correct the post I made last week.
Often, people look at a story like this and allow their biases influence them. If you are someone who believes religion is a victim of gay advocacy, you might side with Liberty Counsel. If you believe religion is used to harass GLBT people, then you might be inclined to believe this new report from the GLBT student group.
All I can say is that the reports we have are insufficient to be dogmatic. I have investigated many claims from advocates on both sides of the culture war and been disappointed that truth was not being told. Speaking about my community (evangelical), I can say that I have found some evangelical culture war groups engage in spin. I used to trust such groups to be honest and consider the impact of spin on public perception. As a matter of course now, I don’t accept things at face value.
For instance, recently the law firm representing Dakota Ary, Liberty Counsel, asserted that the American Association of Christian Counselors was a larger group of professionals than the American Psychological Association. This is flat out untrue. On the same day, Mat Staver told his radio audience that the AACC has produced ““the most definitive, most recent research that’s come out that says change is possible.” This is spin.
First, to my knowledge, the AACC has not paid for any research on sexual orientation change. Perhaps, they have and I am not aware of it — if so, I will correct this statement. AACC members Mark Yarhouse and Stan Jones released the first wave of their study at an AACC conference but the AACC did not produce it; Exodus International funded the research. Furthermore, the research showed that some changes took place for a minority of participants but calling the research definitive is a stretch.
Recently, the AACC journal Edification published a report from Mark Yarhouse and his students from Regent University showing that men and women in mixed orientation marriages described no change in sexual orientation. To my knowledge, the Christian culture war complex has not addressed this finding. In a journal, the AACC published research that stands in contradiction to the Liberty Counsel statement.
Some Christians take my skepticism as a character flaw or a sign that I have capitulated to the enemy (see what the culture war does to perception of out-groups?). They say that the opposition spins and manipulates data, so why shouldn’t we? I think the answer is obvious, so obvious that I will let that question sink in and not answer it.
I don’t know who is offering the most factual narrative in the Fort Worth controversy. I just know that right now, for me, the question is open.
As a member of the opposition, I have to say that this is one area they’re not lying about.
I’ve been guilty of over-simplification before now. I’ve tried to explain complex concepts in simple terms, and my Wittgenstein’s ladder is worn out from over-use.
What the Evangelicals do is their business. Some are so blinkered they can’t see the truth even when it’s pointed out to them (Dr Michael Brown comes to mind). Others lie because it gets the money rolling in. That’s their concern, not mine. Sharks bite; Fundies lie; it’s what they do.
I’m more concerned about “our side” having respect for the truth. In fact, I can’t even speak for “our side”, I can only speak for me. That means pointing out and critiquing distortions and spin no matter which side is guilty of them.
So I’ve been reading the follow up info as well. And if there has been a history of Ary being disruptive. or if it was clearly directed as an insult to the teacher rather than an aside to a friend, then I can see why the teacher would have simply sent him to the principal rather than deal with the comment in class. And, again, if Ary had a history of being in trouble like this, then maybe a multiple day suspension would have been appropriate, However, if that was the case, I don’t think the administration should have backed down on that.
Also, I do think the Advocate piece (and it’s source) is unjustly attempting to vilify Ary as well. For example from the advocate piece Warren linked to:
months? Ary is a freshman, and classes didn’t start until the end of August, so I think the use of the term “months” is inappropriately deceptive. Additionally, the advocate piece implies, without any evidence, that Ary was responsible for vandalizing a post in the class.
Frankly, I’m more than a bit worried that Liberty Counsel will try to turn him in to a martyr for their cause, while the pro-glbt/anti-bullying advocates will try to make him out to be some devil spawn. So I would like to urge the adults in this debate, to remember he is just a 14 year old kid.
This is an article from the Dallas Voice that gives additional details on the story:
http://www.dallasvoice.com/lgbt-groups-fort-worth-teacher-suspended-student-victim-anti-gay-harassment-1090417.html
The Dallas Voice says it will have a still more complete article on Friday.
Warren can you kindly post a follow up article about 14-year-old Jamey Rodemeyer who completed suicide? It seems the bullying hasn’t stopped and the bullies are now bullying his sister. If you did a follow up on Dakota Ayer shouldn’t you also do a followup about Jamey Rodemeyer? I would not want to see bullies getting away with it, more coverage than victims of anti gay bullying.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042576/Jamey-Rodemeyer-death-School-bullies-drove-gay-14-year-old-kill-chant-glad-hes-dead-sister.html
Advocate report: Suspended Student Had Harassed Teacher
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/09/27/Report_Suspended_Student_Had_Harassed_Teacher/
Warren,
You are almost there man! You blended your transformation into the discussion of Dakota Ary.
I think people know where you stand, implicitly. But step out man!
Say it loud and proud!
I am against “Spinning” in the name of Jesus. Jesus doesn’t need spin.
It is lying.
I think this idea deserves its own lengthy post.
It will create a framework for like-minded Christians to emulate.
I’ve read the reports which promote the teacher’s point of view. I can’t find that his position becomes much better. (Even if I quite understand that a teacher in his situation loses nerve.)
Ary’s comment was NOT off topic. Ary questioned the teacher’s ability to give reliable information about the topic (Christians in Germany) because the teacher, being gay, was no Christian.
The argument is rather crude but not too much. The basic ideas are to be found everywhere in debates (not only at schooll) and have to be scrutinized. What I would answer is, first, that the Christian community was not created for the just, but for the sinners, so – even if being gay was a sin – sinning doesn’t prevent anyone from being a Christian, Secondly, that partisanship indeed endangers everone’s reliability, but everyone is able to overcome this danger, partly by personal conscientousness, partly by public control.
You don’t get children to learn those things if you send them home.
Patrocles# ~ Sep 28, 2011 at 11:19 pm
“I’ve read the reports which promote the teacher’s point of view. I can’t find that his position becomes much better. (Even if I quite understand that a teacher in his situation loses nerve.)”
Because if Ary had a history of being disruptive, then the teacher could have seen this as Ary being nothing more than a smart-ass. So writing him up and sending him to the principal would have simply been a matter of shutting down such behaviour in class.
Here is were my own prejudges are evident and why I do not have the patience to teach. I would have answered the Germans reading the Bible in English question with, “Yes, Johnny, Gutenberg printed his Bible in the only correct translation, King James English,” and moved on.
Ken,
from the reports I’ve learned that the teacher felt harrassed by just some or many students (more or less networking), even before Ary came to his class. So I understand that he was strained.
On the other hand – I, as blogger, have often been confronted with spite, venom or smartassishness. Notwithstandig, my principle (and a sound principle) has always been: take an argument as an argument at its face value; independent from the emotions adhering to it; and try to respond to it in a purely rational way. (Admittedly, as a blogger, I can remain much more distant emotionally than a teacher. But it’s also a question of training and even of religious conviction: I’m convinced that reason and clear thinking are part of the “inner light” of a person.)
Patro –
What does the teacher’s sexual orientation have to do with whether he is a Christian or not? Are you assuming that just because he is gay he is not a Christian?
The teacher has been cleared but I can’t get Dallas Voice to load to read the article.
Patro –
Believe me when I tell you this has happened to all of us.
Bullycide
http://youtu.be/sVyugde89W0
This is the fuller article published in the Dallas Voice:
http://www.dallasvoice.com/90930-1090930.html
Glad to see that the full picture seems to be emerging.
@ Patrocles : I entirely understand your point about avoiding overly-emotional responses, but we are dealing with a particularly emotional subject here and one that involves a lot of unpleasant ‘baggage’. LGB people have been, and are, on the receiving end of some pretty spiteful and untruthful stuff, and they and their allies might be forgiven for being somewhat ‘tetchy’ in response. When we lambast our homophobic foes, we do at least generally use their own words and/or actions as the basis for doing so, rather than making assumptions or false accusations.
F Young# ~ Sep 30, 2011 at 8:00 am
“This is the fuller article published in the Dallas Voice:”
Unfortunately, this article doesn’t really provide much new information. It does say that Franks was exonerated in the investigation for unspecified allegations. The article also points out that the investigation WASN’T about the published incident with Ary. However, given that Franks wasn’t allowed to discuss his history with Ary, it leads me to wonder if Ary had anything to do with these unspecified allegations.
F Young or Ken, every time my browser tries to load the dallas voice the url flips to .m meaning I think mobile so it never loads for me. If you are accessing on a mobile device that is perhaps why you can see it and I can’t. If the article is not to long could you kindly re-print it here?
From: http://www.dallasvoice.com/90930-1090930.html
FORT WORTH — Gay Western Hills High School teacher Kristopher Franks, put on paid administrative leave on Monday, Sept. 26, following allegations of improper behavior, has been cleared of all allegations and was set to return to work today (Friday, Sept. 30).
Franks is the teacher who became the target of ire from the religious right after he sent a student in his German 1 class to the principal’s office for saying in class that as a Christian he believed “homosexuality is wrong.” The school’s assistance principal then suspended the student, setting off a controversy that made headlines around the country.
That student, freshman Dakota Ary, and his mother enlisted the assistance of Liberty Counsel attorney Matt Krause in fighting the suspension on the grounds that Franks and the school had violated Ary’s right to freedom of speech.
District officials quickly reversed their decision, lifting the suspension.
But Steven Poole, deputy executive director for the United Educators Association of Texas, a teachers union, said Tuesday, Sept. 27, that the allegations leading to Franks being put on leave were unrelated to the incident with Ary.
Franks, who had not spoken to the press previously on the advice of his union representative, said Thursday afternoon that he had just met with Fort Worth Independent School District administrators, who told him the nearly weeklong investigation had determined that the allegations against him were unfounded. He did not elaborate on the substance of those allegations.
Franks also said administrators had given him the option of returning to teach at Western Hills High or transferring to another school in the district.
“I haven’t made up my mind yet what I’m going to do,” Franks told Dallas Voice by phone Thursday afternoon. “I’m going to go back to work tomorrow, and I will talk to my boss [the district’s world languages supervisor], and see what she says and decide what’s the best thing to do from there.”
FWISD Board of Trustees member Dr. Carlos Vasquez told Dallas Voice in a phone call Wednesday afternoon, Sept. 28, that any time allegations are made against a teacher, those allegations have to be investigated, and it is routine for the teacher in question to be placed on paid administrative leave.
Franks said Thursday that he was pleased with the outcome of the investigation, carried out by an independent investigator, and that interim FWISD Supt. Walter Dansby was “very nice” when they spoke.
“I think they did the right thing,” Franks said. “I can go back to work, which is great. But now I just have to figure out how to fix the damage this whole thing has done to my personal life.”
Franks said since the investigation is closed, he is no longer being represented by a union attorney. He has, instead, retained the services of attorney Stephen Gordon to “represent me on any aspects of this whole thing going forward.”
He also indicated that he and Gordon would be discussing what possible actions he might take against “those people who have lied and made false allegations against me.”
While Franks had previously declined to speak to the media, Daokta Ary, his mother and Krause as their attorney went immediately to the press, telling their side of the story in several TV interviews and saying Franks and the school had violated the student’s right to freedom of speech. The case quickly became a rallying point for the religious right.
Krause this week told Dallas Voice that he and his clients are satisfied with school officials’ decision to rescind the unexcused absences the suspension left on Ary’s record, but “we would still like for them [school officials] to completely vindicate him and say that he did nothing wrong. He should never have been written up for an infraction. He should never have been sent to the office, and he should never have been suspended.”
Ary said in media interviews that he made the comment quietly to a classmate sitting next to him in response to a discussion going on in the class at the time.
Dakota Ary
But Franks told friends shortly after the incident that there was no discussion involving homosexuality at the time, and that Ary made the comment loudly while looking directly at Franks.
Franks also told friends that the comment was only the latest in an ongoing series of incidents in which Ary and a group of three of his friends have made anti-gay comments to and about him.
Franks told friends that the harassment by Ary and his friends began several weeks ago after Franks, who also teaches sociology, posted on the “World Wall” in his classroom a photo, taken from the German news magazine Stern, of two men kissing. The photo was ripped off the wall and torn in two at some point during Ary’s class, and Franks told friends he believes that Ary or one of his friends tore up the photo.
During a later sociology class students upset that the photo had been torn up replaced it with a hand-drawn picture, and another student then covered that picture with a page bearing a hand-written biblical scripture from Leviticus calling sex between two men an abomination.
Franks told friends that since that incident, Ary and his friends had continued to make derogatory and harassing comments.
Franks’ friends also said that the teacher, a Fulbright scholar, has been the target of anti-gay harassment for at least the last two years, including having hateful messages left in his classroom and, in one case, having his car vandalized.
FWISD teacher Martin Vann, spokesman for the group LGBTQ S.A.V.E.S. that was formed about a year ago to help protect students and teachers in the district from anti-gay discrimination and bullying, said that Franks told his version of the incident last week, before the current investigation was launched and Franks was required to sign a statement saying he would not discuss the incident with other teachers, administrators, parents or students. Vann said Franks denied getting angry and yelling at Ary, as Ary had said, and reiterated that Ary’s comments were not pertinent to any discussion in the class at the time.
Vann said Franks told him that another student had asked him what the German word for “Christian” was, and how, if he moved to Germany, he could find an English translation of the Bible. That’s when, Franks told Vann, Ary looked directly at him and said loudly that as a Christian, he believes homosexuality is wrong.
It was not, Franks told Vann, a simple statement of belief or opinion but rather an intentional effort to insult and harass the teacher that Ary perceived to be gay.
Krause this week again said that Ary did not direct his remark in class that day at Franks, and that Ary had nothing to do with tearing down the photo of the men kissing.
The attorney also said that Ary told him he did not know to whom Franks was referring when he talked about Ary’s “three friends.”
The Franks case comes in the wake of months of scandal over allegations by teachers that administrators routinely allowed some teachers and administrators to harass and bully students and other teachers, and that teachers who complained often faced retaliation.
Vasquez, who is openly gay, said Wednesday that he believed the Franks investigation would be fair, that he would watch the situation closely “to make sure all the proper procedures are followed,” and that he believed Dansby would handle the situation fairly.
“Considering all the problems we’ve had, I know he [Dansby] will be watching this closely,” Vasquez said.
Vasquez said it is the school district’s responsibility to make sure there is “no harassment in our schools, whether it’s from the teacher to the student, or student to student or even student to teacher. I know that happens, sometimes, too.
“There should be no harassment whatsoever in our schools,” Vasquez , himself a former teacher, said.
Fort Worth ISD has been credited with having one of the most comprehensive anti-bullying and anti-harassment policies in the state, having adopted individual policies within the last year to include prohibitions against harassment and bullying, including that based on sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression, for both teachers and students.
This article appeared in the Dallas Voice print edition September 30, 2011.
Zoe Brain:
David Blakeslee:
David Blakeslee follow-up:
I think this idea can and should be discussed in this Post. Patiently waiting, reading, watching, standing apart to get some distance from my own ‘ying-yang’ of where the ‘truth’ lies in this particular instance … which stands as an example for all of us, in any ‘touchy’ subject … how do I respond in my search for the ‘truth’ (Truth).
Oh, it’s far easier for me to be somewhat objective when it comes to sensitive topics I’m not personally involved with … where I’m not the subject of the topic, so-to-speak. I suspect that’s true for all of us. Can I be emotionally mature enough to see the ‘truth’ even when it hurts ‘me’ … my own ego? Can I (to use a paraphrase of Zoe’s last sentence) critique my own distortions and spin … can I set my own prejudices aside (or even acknowledge that that’s what they are) and be a ‘truth-seeker’, no matter the personal cost.
I ask all of you, posters and readers alike, is it possible, truly possible to see the ‘truth’ of same-sex attraction … what it means to be a person with same-sex attraction … what the truth of that means to people, science, society, faith-beliefs … can we as a reasonably open free-speech society … ever have a ‘truthful’ discussion?
Teresa I have been missing you, I almost posted comment last night asking where you are and how you have been. It is so nice to see you contribute.
And to answer your question,
Sadly I do not think it is possible at this time Teresa. And the blockage is religion. With religion there is no discussion of the “merits” only obedience whether religion is right or wrong it demands obedience. I am very sour on religion at the moment, in fact the more I discuss Civil Rights for sexual minorities and bump up against the side FOR Civil Discrimination, the weaker my faith becomes. Sad comment that,isn’t it?
T,
Someone once asked me “If God made it mandatory that you were to be in a same gender relationhip, would you follow his commandmant?” I have often asked this of people who have never had any SSA. Sometimes, you can see them pause and sort of get a kind of inkling about what it is like to be on the other side of the table.
I am unclear what the dishonesty is that you believe needs to be overcome in our discussions here. I think our discussion on this issue has been .. for the most part … rather balanced.. with people from both sides being cautious not to jump to conclusions. Both sides recognize the possibility of story spin from organizations on either side of the issue.
There will always be a moral difference of opinion on the issue of gay marriage and gay sex .. if this is what you are referring to .. just as there will always be competing opinions on the moral question(s) of premarital sex or divorce and remarriage. I would hope we can disagree in an agreeable fashion and recognize that picking on or harassing others for their moral choices/beliefs or their orientation is wrong.
Dave
Thank you, StraightGrandmother, for your kind words.
Dave said:
I’m referring actually to what many Evangelicals, Catholics, Mormons, Muslins,seem to think, voice, judge that simply being a homosexual is deviant, perverted, unnatural, worthy of condemnation. Has there been some progress in this, assuredly; but, make no mistake, in my opinion, there lies a large substrata of individuals who abhor gay persons … simply for ‘being’. Included in this group are those that maybe well-meaning, but hide their dislike of homosexual persons under the ‘speaking the truth in love’ guise of ‘str8′ng’ us out.
I agree .. this is an ongoing problem. Even tthe Dakota Ary issue shows how this is still a problem. And .. yes .. things are changing .. but it is .. sadly .. a slow process.
Blessings and peace,
Dave
Dave said,
SGM= I have been thinking about what you wrote. Why? Why will there always be a moral difference of opinion? We got over the Biblical justification indeed Biblical command, for slavery. It is no longer a moral question it has been asked and answered, slavery is morally wrong.
Why are you so certain that there will always be a difference of opinion on Civil Equal Marriage Rights for sexual minorities?
SG ..
I was speaking theologically .. for example .. there are still churches out there that believe in head coverings for women. So ..if some churches are still practicing that then I am sure there will be churches or denominations that have varied viewpoints on other issues.
I think in the future much of the church world is going to look back at some of the shenanigans that were being done in the name of Christ in this area ( such as: lies, slander and so forth) and shake their heads in bewildermint (and perhaps some shame). But the moral questions concerning sexuality and marrriage (gay or straight) will probably continue in some circles.
Dave
hi it is refreshing for me to see a christian who actually WILLING to be FAIR on this issue and acknowledge that either side putting spin on the truth is NOT OK.
Because as a gay christian, i often get frustrated by how many retarded christians out there, who seem to have this mentality that if they heard something preached at the church, or talked about by other christians, it is automatically the truth. and completely ignores the truth. Just like i have came across so many christians who STILL believe we gays harms the kids and turn them gay, despite all the profession bodies stated they support gay adoptions because researches shows there are no truth to above claims. And yes, gays put spin on things too,
but you would think people who know God would behave a little bit better.
BTW are you a born again christian. sorry for asking the obvious, but usually born again believers are the most rabid when it comes to believe whatever the so called chrisitan organisations like family research council tell them.