Comments on: LDS scholars critique Byrd, Cox & Robinson review

By: Spontaneous change compared to therapeutically mediated change — Warren Throckmorton

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:48:34 +0000

[...] Spontaneous change compared to therapeutically mediated change Posted on September 22nd, 2009 by Warren Something has been bothering me, running around in my head since I did the brief series of posts on Dean Byrd’s review of LDS book, In Quiet Desperation (here, here and here). [...]

By: Debbie Thurman

Debbie Thurman — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:50 +0000

“temperamental sensitivity, obsessive introspection and perfectionism.”

I have thought long and hard about this over the past few years, and I have concluded that, for what it’s worth, those traits describe my earlier years — childhood through young adulthood — to a T. Naturally, it would have made me more vulnerable to depression and anxiety. Who knows how it could have influenced my same-sex attractions or other sexual temptations?

Other factors are in the equation (CSA, father/mother issues, a sexually permissive climate leading to curiosity), all of which could have converged to influence my need to seek amelioration or “completeness” with the same sex.

It always makes my head hurt when I try to put it all together. We all know it’s complex and, in some ways, defies understanding. Certainly defies categorizing.

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:38:27 +0000

…a perfect partner….

This would suggest a kind of anxiety different from neurotic anxiety, more like flooding.

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:36:52 +0000

Obsessive anxiety, and introspection…reasonable that one would want soothing or distraction in such a state.

Sexual feelings (regardless of orientation) could be a quick balm. Erotic identification with a masterful partner would both lower anxiety and increase pleasure.

By: Warren

Warren — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:20:18 +0000

RE: the temperamental traits – I would want to see data. I do not see that in my clients, except during highly emotional times. I think the traits could be effects of stress rather than causes of same-sex attraction.

I suspect they have seen some obsessional clients who worried about being gay; helped their obsessions and called it a cure.

I want to see data not generalizations from people who have demonstrated a willingness to diagnose people without seeing them.

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 23:31:53 +0000

This assessment, generally (not in this specific application), strikes me as worth further discussion:

“temperamental sensitivity, obsessive introspection and perfectionism.”

By: Warren

Warren — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:41:58 +0000

David – You are correct, I was pretty restrained here. I think it kind of speaks for itself.

Bradshaw et al nail this well. Reparative therapists have their clients diagnosed before they ever get in the door. And then to do this in print for someone they have never seen is irresponsible. I wonder if Mr. Mansfield would have a complaint he could file if wanted to…

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:39:23 +0000

Well, whatever Byrd is doing he’s being vague in such a way that his desired outcomes are not being supported. It’s just one more example that people like me would look at over the years (the last 40 years in my case) and think that the ‘experts’ don’t know what they’re talking about. Byrd in particular decries our own lives seemingly without listening to what gay men have experienced from the culture or our religions, friends and family. With him it is as if we are presumed guilty without a trial. And that is often the way it was when I first came out in the 60s. One should hope some change relating to a better understanding of the pressures a young gay person may feel would have come into play by now….

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:44:21 +0000

Warren,

You seem overly cautious in this posting.

Isn’t clear that Dr. Byrd is being criticized for unethical use of psychological diagnoses (assessing a patient he has never seen)?

He is also being criticized for using his experience at the LDS center in such a way that his “findings” cannot be verified; only to reinforce his conclusions.

He is capable of being a good academician and researcher…