Thanks for the response. Does he reckon the development of homosexuality is a disorder or is it a normal development?

Forgive my poor wording. I am neither professional nor an academic.

When I looked into therapy that affirmed orientation change, I (perhaps naively) believed everybody was on the same page and the same side.

I’m struggling to make sense of what exactly the differences are between all these groups that ultimately seek to help homosexuals who are unhappy with their feelings.

Is it policy differences? Academic schisms? Personal quarrels?

I don’t think it is about population density.

It is about anger, social isolation and marginalization. Sex is the myth that promises to alleviate all of this…

We market the myth—but first we have to make people feel empty.

This could be a transition to a related topic…

@ Evan,

If you were addressing me about holiness and abstinence for gays (and straights). I would like to respond.

You seem to be arguing that if there is not a reliable outlet for sexual pleasure, it does harm to a person….

Although this is a common belief, I know of no research to support such an assertion. Anyone?

I think it may be an Urban Legend…I would like to see it debunked on Mythbusters.

Some have argued that the sexually repressed are more creative and innovative, using sublimation (as a defense) thereby making more profound contributions to society.

The main point of the thread is that the APA did not recommend church swapping, wife swapping, husband swapping, or any thing else like that. Gays and straights are sinners according to orthodox Christianity so it doesn’t really matter what “groups” do since “groups” don’t really do anything; individuals do.

IMHO, the entire ‘holiness detour’ needs a “Road Closed” sign. We need to either get back to the actual ‘main point of the thread’ or let this thread die.

I agree there are differences in how gay christians and straight christians view holiness when it comes to sex and sexuality.

I am curious. What do you see as the main differences in how gay Christians and straight Christians view morality? Do you see any similarities? Could you give some examples? Are you speaking of individuals or groups?

I personally don’t think that Gay Christians have lower standards of sexual morality — but how would I know if they are the same? Maybe they are lower than straights or ex-gays. Maybe they are higher.

99% of the time, when we use the term ‘lower standards’, it’s a negative thing. Most of us can’t say or hear ‘lower standards’ without thinking ‘compromise’ or ‘cutting corners’ but that isn’t always the case. Didn’t Jesus get into trouble for challenging that ‘your righteousness is as filthy rags’?

Over the years, I’ve known many Christians whose standards are higher than mine…folks who would never expose the flesh of an elbow or a knee, folks who would never step foot inside a movie theatre, some who frowned on joking of any kind, others who had rules against playing pool or cards…cooking on a Sunday…swimming in the same water as the opposite sex. Their standards were literally higher…mine were indeed lower. They didn’t adopt their standards willy-nilly; most everything they did was based on their interpretation of the Bible…but I didn’t come to the same conclusions. While I believed in the same principles, I thought they took some things to the extreme. Them higher…me lower but does that say which (if either) is God’s ideal? You can recognize a difference…you can even discuss a difference…you can even use the English words ‘higher’ and ‘lower’ re the standards without placing a value judgement.

I personally don’t think that Gay Christians have lower standards of sexual morality — but how would I know if they are the same? Maybe they are lower than straights or ex-gays. Maybe they are higher. Maybe they are the same. Maybe they are very different. Who knows?

I meant to speak ONLY of the gay Christians I know and interact with. I should have said that “the gay Christians I know seem to be quite serious about sexual and personal holiness” — and left it at that. I would imagine that the standards of holiness and the level of success at living out holiness would differ from individual to individual, as Warren has pointed out.

None of these sins should be taken lightly and Christians, gay and straight, should strive towards holiness. There are probably many other things I could add to that list — lust and envy for example. I should note that those are just my opinions and may not reflect how other SSA Christians feel.

I should also note that everyone is different and that individuals may be at different points along the path towards personal holiness, some further ahead on the road and some lagging behind. I am also certain that some individuals and some groups are better at holiness than others.