For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. Jeremiah 29:11-12

Ah, yes, Ann. Thanks for your comments on hope. Well said.

Why are so many of us married to our singular either-or opinion on change? It’s really not the degree of change that is the real point. It’s viewing SSA like any other brokenness resulting in temptation that may lead to sin. We’ve got science/psychology pitted against ministry/discipleship (the ministry of reconciliation).

Where on earth is there more of an all-out war of terminology, precept and conscience — accept in the realm of abortion? Look at both those issues. Sexually driven and self-centered (for the most part) with a potentially devastating impact on lives. Abortion takes out a large segment of society that never sees the light of day. Gay affirmation, without even knowing what the struggle of self-denial might yield in one’s spiritual life, is also a travesty, IMHO.

Alan Chambers tried to accomplish this refocusing in his book, I think. He may have partially succeeded.

Ah! But that depends on what you mean by “works”. It may not heal the disease, but it may heal the fear. Prayer always works. Sometimes, the answer is yes. Sometimes no. Sometimes not yet.

Amen. And studies I am aware of, even on blind, intercessory prayer, have yielded different results than what Lynn indicates.

LOL. Thanks for taking part. And hey, sometimes the manure helps the fruit grow…

Yep, that’s the point. We need to remember it (the manure) is a means to something productive and not get distracted by it.

Warren, I think you and I are actually close to thinking and saying the same things – if that means that not any outcome to sexual sanctification is OK, but only the two outcomes of chaste singleness or heterosexual marriage.

Before you go, Karen. Could you address whether ot not you think that solo masturbation might be OK sometimes? David Blakesless has said that he think it’s morally neutral — like a nice meal or a good book.

What is your take? Could I, as a single “SSA only” guy ever express or release sexual feelings in this way, in private, and still be morally OK? Could it ever be part of “chaste singleness” or am I to have no sexual release whatever until I die?

I read back through Warren’s posts and I think I missed some of them in cross-posting.

Warren, I think you and I are actually close to thinking and saying the same things – if that means that not any outcome to sexual sanctification is OK, but only the two outcomes of chaste singleness or heterosexual marriage.

I really didn’t understand the distinction you were making between your SIT model and ministry. Or, I understood the difference but thought you still wanted Exodus to do the former – adopt a more therapeutic model.

I really misunderstood you and I apologize for that. And for being frustrated and testy. I still think you want Exodus to downplay change more than I do, but I can live with that.

I also apologize for sharing what I did about how you and this blog are perceived by some leaders in the ex-gay/post-gay movement. I didn’t do it to be mean, but I should have shared it with you privately. I’m sorry I didn’t.

So, I say goodbye to this thread, too, and a special thankyou to Warren, Eddy, Michel B. Debbie T., Ann and Mary for one of the best online conversations I’ve ever had. It really helped me to think through my beliefs in a systematic way. It was a great gift to me.

The comments that I posted about “rare” were quotes from Mike Goeke writing in God’s Grace and the Homosexual Next Door. See the post above – Jul 23, 2009 at 8:37 pm.