RE your question with the brainscans. I think many children might not be able to understand their feelings or to make them fit into categories, so that’s why I thought a longitudinal study on GID children, following their development in time, might reveal more, given that the great majority of them grow up to be gay.

Debbie Thurman,

I like the Piano Man and how he thinks too

LOL.

If I may express a few other points not specific to the discussion of research and samples, so hope I’m not going too far off track here: I do not equate natural as necessarily being good (some natural things may be, some natural things may not be). I do not equate the path of least resistance as necessarily being the best path (some paths may be, some may not be). I don’t view all suffering as evil (some may be, some may not be). I don’t view all things as relative, because my sense of justice regarding folks like Stalin and Hitler is inconsistent with all things being relative. I am but one follower of the One who said lose your life to find it, and deny yourself to follow Me; two things which at face value don’t make sense, at least at first. Even if I was abused, even if it was “only” emotional abuse, and because of my personality etc. I responded to it differently than someone else would, etc etc. I know One who empathizes and who suffered far worse, and for good reason. And I find that to be extremely comforting. Possibly even comforting enough to compensate for my having a question without an answer, because I know the One with the answer, and I choose to accept that as enough.

I agree with everything you just wrote — but again, you’re beginning with the gay population.

If you begin with the abused population, it seems to me to clear up something: That abuse which directly attacks one’s developing sexuality has often, though not in every case, has an effect on one’s developing sexuality.

And the reason this is important is because this population is being further injured by the political climate.

Just as people who are relatively content with their identification as gay are injured by the political climate — which, it seems to me, is becoming more sensitive to their cause.

Not so much for those who would like to be able to disintangle their feelings about being traumatized as children from their adult feelings. They’re pretty much told that they should accept that they’re gay and feel good about it, and if they don’t then they’re simply suffering from internalized homophobia.

And as far as gay men who were abused feeling that they were gay before their abuse, my guess would be that if they were abused before the age of between 7 and 9 that that assessment on their part is questionable at least.

It’s interesting to note that men are far more likely to evaluate their abuse as sexual initiation than women. Far more likely to evaluate it as pleasant at the time because they’re bodies responded as bodies do to stimulation. But women who experienced orgasims during abuse are still far more likely to report the abuse in negative terms, despite the physical reaction.

And lesbians are far less likely to claim that they already knew their sexual orientation before the abuse happened.

And both men and women find relief in realizing that they can better decide how they want to live their life as sexual/sensual beings once they address their abuse histories.

Researchers have been unsuccessful in gaining grants to study the effects of abuse on subsequent sexual development, which is one of the reasons that far less has been written about this than the never-ending search for the definitive bio-chemical cause of homosexuality.

And as far as heterosexuality: I’ve never felt simply born gay. I too clearly remember the questions, the looking-at-others as models, etc…. when I was younger.

At least for me, I don’t feel that my heterosexuality was relatively solidified until my late teens, early 20′s.

Can I prove it? Nope. But it’s certainly the way it feels to me.

If I could prove this about me, does that mean that others don’t have a greater, and earlier, bio-chemical driver? Nope.

Katie