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	<title>Comments on: Frisch &amp; Hviid and reparative drive theory revisited</title>
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	<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/</link>
	<description>A College Psychology Professor&#039;s Observations About Public Policy, Mental Health, Sexual Identity, and Religious Issues</description>
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		<title>By: Fg68at</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-165918</link>
		<dc:creator>Fg68at</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-165918</guid>
		<description>I have the one and ultimative answer: We must destroy the cities, then we have less homosexuals. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the one and ultimative answer: We must destroy the cities, then we have less homosexuals. <img src='http://wthrockmorton.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fg68at</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-165916</link>
		<dc:creator>Fg68at</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-165916</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In a smaller country like Denmark, it seems that gay people in the rural areas might just move to the city where attitudes are more accepting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is also fact in big countries like USA. Here a survivey whith praevalence and factor residence place: &lt;a href=&quot;http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Fg68at/Baustelle/Prävalenz&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stuart Michaels 1996&lt;/a&gt; Table &quot;Wohnort&quot; = &quot;place of residence&quot;, &quot;Vorort&quot; =  &quot;suburb&quot;, CC = Central Cities, biggest metropolitan areas, &quot;Nächste 88 CC&quot; = &quot;next 88 CC&quot;

There is also a little study from a country youth organisation around Berlin. And a residence study in Vienna (wich place in the city, gay neighborhood) where overproportional people are born in rural areas.

The Causes are different. Some move to a big city before coming out, because they feeling not right in the social tightness of a small town. But it is only one factor to move. It makes it more likely  to move. The primary causes are mostly better worklplace, etc. 

And same sex partnership is not prevalence of homosexuality. I think you will find also more homosexuals in traditional marriages in urban areas. 

For Trayce Hansen from NARTH this study is an evidence that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.narth.com/docs/legalizing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Legalizing Same-Sex Marriage Will Increase Prevalence of Homosexuality&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In a smaller country like Denmark, it seems that gay people in the rural areas might just move to the city where attitudes are more accepting.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is also fact in big countries like USA. Here a survivey whith praevalence and factor residence place: <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Fg68at/Baustelle/Prävalenz" rel="nofollow">Stuart Michaels 1996</a> Table &#8220;Wohnort&#8221; = &#8220;place of residence&#8221;, &#8220;Vorort&#8221; =  &#8220;suburb&#8221;, CC = Central Cities, biggest metropolitan areas, &#8220;Nächste 88 CC&#8221; = &#8220;next 88 CC&#8221;</p>
<p>There is also a little study from a country youth organisation around Berlin. And a residence study in Vienna (wich place in the city, gay neighborhood) where overproportional people are born in rural areas.</p>
<p>The Causes are different. Some move to a big city before coming out, because they feeling not right in the social tightness of a small town. But it is only one factor to move. It makes it more likely  to move. The primary causes are mostly better worklplace, etc. </p>
<p>And same sex partnership is not prevalence of homosexuality. I think you will find also more homosexuals in traditional marriages in urban areas. </p>
<p>For Trayce Hansen from NARTH this study is an evidence that <a href="http://www.narth.com/docs/legalizing.html" rel="nofollow">Legalizing Same-Sex Marriage Will Increase Prevalence of Homosexuality</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164467</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164467</guid>
		<description>Eddy - I realize the difference but Nicolosi and others at NARTH will use anything if it helps fit the general idea. And if the theory is correct, it really doesn&#039;t matter why the boy stays identified with mom just that he does. If he has no father to pull him out of the purported symbiotic relationship with mom, then how does it happen? The truth is there is a natural process that happens whether dad is there or he isn&#039;t. The content of the child&#039;s character, his impulse control and aggression is influenced by dad but there is no evidence that his sexual wiring is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddy &#8211; I realize the difference but Nicolosi and others at NARTH will use anything if it helps fit the general idea. And if the theory is correct, it really doesn&#8217;t matter why the boy stays identified with mom just that he does. If he has no father to pull him out of the purported symbiotic relationship with mom, then how does it happen? The truth is there is a natural process that happens whether dad is there or he isn&#8217;t. The content of the child&#8217;s character, his impulse control and aggression is influenced by dad but there is no evidence that his sexual wiring is.</p>
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		<title>By: Drowssap</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164455</link>
		<dc:creator>Drowssap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164455</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is a slight increase in odds of homosexual marriage for men if one’s mother was over 35 at birth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I bet if I googled for even 5 minutes I&#039;d find that 100 different health problems go up for children of older moms.
---
One of the first developmental markers scientists check for is handedness.  Do older moms have more left handed children?  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/106080/LEFTIES-MORE-LIKELY-FROM-OLDER-MOMS-STUDY-SAYS.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lefties more likely from older moms, study says&lt;/a&gt;
Check!  For those who don&#039;t know an increase in left handedness is a sign of misdevelopment.  For example half of all premature babies are lefties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There is a slight increase in odds of homosexual marriage for men if one’s mother was over 35 at birth.</p></blockquote>
<p>I bet if I googled for even 5 minutes I&#8217;d find that 100 different health problems go up for children of older moms.<br />
&#8212;<br />
One of the first developmental markers scientists check for is handedness.  Do older moms have more left handed children?<br />
<a href="http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/106080/LEFTIES-MORE-LIKELY-FROM-OLDER-MOMS-STUDY-SAYS.html" rel="nofollow">Lefties more likely from older moms, study says</a><br />
Check!  For those who don&#8217;t know an increase in left handedness is a sign of misdevelopment.  For example half of all premature babies are lefties.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddy</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164436</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164436</guid>
		<description>Warren said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I find myself in the unusual position of qualifying Morten’s conclusions. I think there is a need to qualify the factors by the non-significant results found. For instance, Morten lists father absence as a factor related to gay marriage. However, I would note that paternal absence via death was unrelated to outcome as was lack of knowledge of father’s identity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When the father relationship plays into the picture, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s absence as in death, divorce, military service, etc.  I think it&#039;s more of a message that a child perceives from a father who is present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I find myself in the unusual position of qualifying Morten’s conclusions. I think there is a need to qualify the factors by the non-significant results found. For instance, Morten lists father absence as a factor related to gay marriage. However, I would note that paternal absence via death was unrelated to outcome as was lack of knowledge of father’s identity.</p></blockquote>
<p>When the father relationship plays into the picture, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s absence as in death, divorce, military service, etc.  I think it&#8217;s more of a message that a child perceives from a father who is present.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164435</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164435</guid>
		<description>Ann,

I mean the age of the mother when she gave birth to the boy.
&lt;blockquote&gt;There is a slight increase in odds of homosexual marriage for men if one’s mother was over 35 at birth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann,</p>
<p>I mean the age of the mother when she gave birth to the boy.</p>
<blockquote><p>There is a slight increase in odds of homosexual marriage for men if one’s mother was over 35 at birth.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164429</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164429</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;high maternal age at the time of birth&lt;/em&gt;

Evan,

Do you mean a mother that is older when given birth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>high maternal age at the time of birth</em></p>
<p>Evan,</p>
<p>Do you mean a mother that is older when given birth?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164416</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164416</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the mention, Warren.

If I remember well, the authors concluded that &lt;strong&gt;these factors favour same-sex partnership (SSP)&lt;/strong&gt;:

- for &lt;strong&gt;men&lt;/strong&gt;: father absence, older sisters, high maternal age at the time of birth, urban place of birth, youngest child, only child;

- for &lt;strong&gt;women&lt;/strong&gt;: maternal death during puberty, older brothers, urban place birth, youngest child, only child, single girl among sibship.

Among the &lt;strong&gt;factors disfavouring SSP&lt;/strong&gt; were:

-for &lt;strong&gt;men&lt;/strong&gt;: younger sisters (!), marriage stability;

- for &lt;strong&gt;women&lt;/strong&gt;: younger sisters (again), younger brothers, marriage stability.

Warren devoted this post to comparing the data against reparative theory claims. I have to admit I haven&#039;t read their books, but I have an outline of their theory from their website. I don&#039;t remember reading anything about younger sisters having a particular impact on both men and women&#039;s development, that would influence their future choice of partners. What comes to my mind right now is rather the imprinting theory, that I think could have a way of working with age differences between siblings (I know it&#039;s considered to play a role relative to parents, but I think it&#039;s not limited to them). Another added possibility would be that boys&#039; and girls&#039; brain parts responsible with their adult sexual orientation are exercised differently in different family constellations which include these factors. That would happen on top of and relative to their situation in the gender segregated world of childhood play and puberty strife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the mention, Warren.</p>
<p>If I remember well, the authors concluded that <strong>these factors favour same-sex partnership (SSP)</strong>:</p>
<p>- for <strong>men</strong>: father absence, older sisters, high maternal age at the time of birth, urban place of birth, youngest child, only child;</p>
<p>- for <strong>women</strong>: maternal death during puberty, older brothers, urban place birth, youngest child, only child, single girl among sibship.</p>
<p>Among the <strong>factors disfavouring SSP</strong> were:</p>
<p>-for <strong>men</strong>: younger sisters (!), marriage stability;</p>
<p>- for <strong>women</strong>: younger sisters (again), younger brothers, marriage stability.</p>
<p>Warren devoted this post to comparing the data against reparative theory claims. I have to admit I haven&#8217;t read their books, but I have an outline of their theory from their website. I don&#8217;t remember reading anything about younger sisters having a particular impact on both men and women&#8217;s development, that would influence their future choice of partners. What comes to my mind right now is rather the imprinting theory, that I think could have a way of working with age differences between siblings (I know it&#8217;s considered to play a role relative to parents, but I think it&#8217;s not limited to them). Another added possibility would be that boys&#8217; and girls&#8217; brain parts responsible with their adult sexual orientation are exercised differently in different family constellations which include these factors. That would happen on top of and relative to their situation in the gender segregated world of childhood play and puberty strife.</p>
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		<title>By: Drowssap</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/11/frisch-hviid-and-reparative-drive-theory-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-164398</link>
		<dc:creator>Drowssap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=3204#comment-164398</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One might suppose that attitudes toward same-sex marriage are more liberal in the urban area if one assumes people are married where they are born. In a smaller country like Denmark, it seems that gay people in the rural areas might just move to the city where attitudes are more accepting. Perhaps, the social attitudes in the area where one grows up plays a role as well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I just checked and the island that Copenhagen is on is a little over 50 miles wide at the widest point.  The mainland is a little over 100 miles wide at the widest point.  If somebody can afford to rent a car and purchase 5 gallons of gas they can move anywhere in the country in 3 hours or less.  It&#039;s hard for me to believe that place of birth would have any impact on marriage in a wealthy country the size of a US city.  
---
I should note that Schizophrenia which is triggered by flu virus (and a few other bugs) shoots way up in big cities.  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/country.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Country and Rural life (vs. city living) before age 15 is associated with lower rates of schizophrenia&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One might suppose that attitudes toward same-sex marriage are more liberal in the urban area if one assumes people are married where they are born. In a smaller country like Denmark, it seems that gay people in the rural areas might just move to the city where attitudes are more accepting. Perhaps, the social attitudes in the area where one grows up plays a role as well.</p></blockquote>
<p>I just checked and the island that Copenhagen is on is a little over 50 miles wide at the widest point.  The mainland is a little over 100 miles wide at the widest point.  If somebody can afford to rent a car and purchase 5 gallons of gas they can move anywhere in the country in 3 hours or less.  It&#8217;s hard for me to believe that place of birth would have any impact on marriage in a wealthy country the size of a US city.<br />
&#8212;<br />
I should note that Schizophrenia which is triggered by flu virus (and a few other bugs) shoots way up in big cities.<br />
<a href="http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/country.html" rel="nofollow">Country and Rural life (vs. city living) before age 15 is associated with lower rates of schizophrenia</a></p>
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