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	<title>Comments on: WND Day of Silence incident reports &#8211; The rest of the story</title>
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	<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/</link>
	<description>A College Psychology Professor&#039;s Observations About Public Policy, Mental Health, Sexual Identity, and Religious Issues</description>
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		<title>By: Concerned Parent</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-105122</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Parent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 02:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-105122</guid>
		<description>Pam~ Having been a teacher myself I can completely respect that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pam~ Having been a teacher myself I can completely respect that.</p>
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		<title>By: pam ferguson</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-105061</link>
		<dc:creator>pam ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 22:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-105061</guid>
		<description>Ok....just from the school&#039;s point-of-view....because I work at one and there is a distinct culture there....I&#039;m not saying it was appropriate for them to even so much as chuckle at you.  However, I will say that them chuckling may not have meant as much as you read it to mean.  

Many times, in fact MOST of the time, things that are made into a big deal outside of the school building (things like the DOS) are not a big deal at all INSIDE the school building.  Believe me when I say that most educators are just trying to get through each day and remain sane.  Most of the time, all these &quot;events&quot; that sideline the day are not something that the staff of the school take all that seriously.  Most of the time, we just want it to be over so that we can get back to focusing on educating the kids.  

It doesn&#039;t make it right for them to blow you off, or to not take you seriously....but....after I while it gets very tiresome when you&#039;re taking call after call about things that don&#039;t make much difference in the grand scheme of our school day.  We are much more concerned (at least in the places where I&#039;ve taught) with things like test scores and ratings/rankings than with managing whatever ABC day it might be today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok&#8230;.just from the school&#8217;s point-of-view&#8230;.because I work at one and there is a distinct culture there&#8230;.I&#8217;m not saying it was appropriate for them to even so much as chuckle at you.  However, I will say that them chuckling may not have meant as much as you read it to mean.  </p>
<p>Many times, in fact MOST of the time, things that are made into a big deal outside of the school building (things like the DOS) are not a big deal at all INSIDE the school building.  Believe me when I say that most educators are just trying to get through each day and remain sane.  Most of the time, all these &#8220;events&#8221; that sideline the day are not something that the staff of the school take all that seriously.  Most of the time, we just want it to be over so that we can get back to focusing on educating the kids.  </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t make it right for them to blow you off, or to not take you seriously&#8230;.but&#8230;.after I while it gets very tiresome when you&#8217;re taking call after call about things that don&#8217;t make much difference in the grand scheme of our school day.  We are much more concerned (at least in the places where I&#8217;ve taught) with things like test scores and ratings/rankings than with managing whatever ABC day it might be today.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104995</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104995</guid>
		<description>Concerned Parent,

Yes I have had plenty of conversations in which I felt that the other party did not take me as seriously as I wished that they had.  And it&#039;s pretty annoying.  I don&#039;t blame you for feeling offended and indignant.

But it seems that you weren&#039;t very accurate or respectful to them when you sent off an email that accused them of calling you names.  And now you are in the uncomfortable position of having to retract what you said.

I respect you for clarifying the situation.  Many folks would not have bothered to fix their misstatement, feeling that their hurt feeling justified anything they may have said whether or not it was true.  Your character is better than that.

I agree that squabling isn&#039;t very nice.

But I also believe that when children tell you that they are being bullied and ask for your help that it certainly isn&#039;t very nice to try and shut them up instead of help them.  You, of course, may disagree with me on that.

Along with Warren, I hope that we can all find a way to talk to each other.  And my chiding you probably isn&#039;t helping much.  But I hope that you can maybe see that those who disagree with you on the issue of homosexuality are not evil.  Any I hope that perhaps we can all find a way to live together and respect each other and not try and silence or bully each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerned Parent,</p>
<p>Yes I have had plenty of conversations in which I felt that the other party did not take me as seriously as I wished that they had.  And it&#8217;s pretty annoying.  I don&#8217;t blame you for feeling offended and indignant.</p>
<p>But it seems that you weren&#8217;t very accurate or respectful to them when you sent off an email that accused them of calling you names.  And now you are in the uncomfortable position of having to retract what you said.</p>
<p>I respect you for clarifying the situation.  Many folks would not have bothered to fix their misstatement, feeling that their hurt feeling justified anything they may have said whether or not it was true.  Your character is better than that.</p>
<p>I agree that squabling isn&#8217;t very nice.</p>
<p>But I also believe that when children tell you that they are being bullied and ask for your help that it certainly isn&#8217;t very nice to try and shut them up instead of help them.  You, of course, may disagree with me on that.</p>
<p>Along with Warren, I hope that we can all find a way to talk to each other.  And my chiding you probably isn&#8217;t helping much.  But I hope that you can maybe see that those who disagree with you on the issue of homosexuality are not evil.  Any I hope that perhaps we can all find a way to live together and respect each other and not try and silence or bully each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Parent</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104987</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Parent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104987</guid>
		<description>Mr. Kincaid~ The officials in my school did laugh at me. It was not a doubled over laughing hysterically but they chuckled like oh geesh its one of those people. I know you have had conversations where the person you were speaking to did not outright degrade you but the tone and feel of the conversation was just that.  My post here was to attempt to clarify the misspeaking that occured in my orginal email. I have attempted to explain the error and how it occured repeatedly here. I am not aware of all of Ms. Harvey&#039;s activities or comments but felt it was the right thing to do in admitting to my error. Her story was a direct quote from my email so she did not intentionally lie concerning me.  As I stated to Mr. Throckmorton in my previous post I dislike getting caught up in the arguing that occurs on posts like this. Neither side ends up looking very nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kincaid~ The officials in my school did laugh at me. It was not a doubled over laughing hysterically but they chuckled like oh geesh its one of those people. I know you have had conversations where the person you were speaking to did not outright degrade you but the tone and feel of the conversation was just that.  My post here was to attempt to clarify the misspeaking that occured in my orginal email. I have attempted to explain the error and how it occured repeatedly here. I am not aware of all of Ms. Harvey&#8217;s activities or comments but felt it was the right thing to do in admitting to my error. Her story was a direct quote from my email so she did not intentionally lie concerning me.  As I stated to Mr. Throckmorton in my previous post I dislike getting caught up in the arguing that occurs on posts like this. Neither side ends up looking very nice.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Parent</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104982</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Parent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104982</guid>
		<description>Mr. Throckmorton I have already read this and I guess to me its somewhat confusing. I feel a bit trapped and know that whatever way I choose to state my position I will be attacked. I DON&#039;T think anyone should be bullyied but it seems there is a fine line between standing up and saying gay is ok. I don&#039;t typically engage in the back and forth that goes on with blogs and posts like this at least not on this issue because of negative experience. So yes I will contact Ms. Harvey and ask her to correct her post but I am still at a loss in fully agreeing with what seems to be your position regarding homosexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Throckmorton I have already read this and I guess to me its somewhat confusing. I feel a bit trapped and know that whatever way I choose to state my position I will be attacked. I DON&#8217;T think anyone should be bullyied but it seems there is a fine line between standing up and saying gay is ok. I don&#8217;t typically engage in the back and forth that goes on with blogs and posts like this at least not on this issue because of negative experience. So yes I will contact Ms. Harvey and ask her to correct her post but I am still at a loss in fully agreeing with what seems to be your position regarding homosexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104981</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104981</guid>
		<description>Concerned Parent,

Yes, it can be very confusing when other Christians don&#039;t agree entirely with everything you have been taught.  I&#039;m sure that it seems ever so simple that the Bible agrees with you that being gay is wrong.  How could anyone disagree with what is written right there in black and white in plain English, bound in leather with your name stamped on the front?

The problem, of course, is that the Bible wasn&#039;t written in black and white in plain English or bound in leather.  And what may seem obvious to us really is nothing more than the accumulation of centuries of other men trying to understand what God is saying and translating what can sometimes be obscure, ambiguous, or downright contradictory wording from lanuages we no longer speak written amidst cultures we no can observe using current vernacular or slang we no longer understand.

And as a result, Christians do not and cannot agree on the nature of the Trinity, the authority of the Pope, the time, method, language, or importance of baptism, the proper day for worship, the position of women in the church, the acceptability of divorce, the baptism of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, the tribulation period, the sinfulness of alcohol consumption, the morality of the death penalty, the response to poverty, or hundreds of other things that are right there in the Bible.  

Why would we expect Christians to agree about whether it is sin to find that one is attracted to the same sex or what the moral response to such a discovery might be?

But I do think we Christians can all agree, liberal or conservative, straight or gay, young or old, urban or rural, that lying or deceiving others is not in accordance with God&#039;s will.  So while we might disagree about the oppropriate translation of some word that didn&#039;t even exist until Paul made it up, we can agree that Linda Harvey has a moral obligation not to lie about what you wrote to her.

So that&#039;s why we care about the accuracy of the story.

Did the administrators actually laugh at you?  Did they break into laughter deriding you?  Or did you only mean this in a rhetorical sense, suggesting that the didn&#039;t really take you as seriously as you might like?

Did they actually use language that suggested you were bigoted and closed minded or was that just how you imagine that they perceive you?

This matters.  Because Linda Harvey has made accusations against specific individuals.  And she based her accusations on your email to her.

So if indeed Pat Williams or Randy Michael called you a narrow minded bigot and laughed at you, that&#039;s a reason to be furious.  I would support efforts to have them removed from their position.

But if they did not call you a &quot;narrow-minded bigot&quot; and laugh at you, then we can all agree that it is a lie to say that they did.  

And we all agree that lying is a sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerned Parent,</p>
<p>Yes, it can be very confusing when other Christians don&#8217;t agree entirely with everything you have been taught.  I&#8217;m sure that it seems ever so simple that the Bible agrees with you that being gay is wrong.  How could anyone disagree with what is written right there in black and white in plain English, bound in leather with your name stamped on the front?</p>
<p>The problem, of course, is that the Bible wasn&#8217;t written in black and white in plain English or bound in leather.  And what may seem obvious to us really is nothing more than the accumulation of centuries of other men trying to understand what God is saying and translating what can sometimes be obscure, ambiguous, or downright contradictory wording from lanuages we no longer speak written amidst cultures we no can observe using current vernacular or slang we no longer understand.</p>
<p>And as a result, Christians do not and cannot agree on the nature of the Trinity, the authority of the Pope, the time, method, language, or importance of baptism, the proper day for worship, the position of women in the church, the acceptability of divorce, the baptism of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, the tribulation period, the sinfulness of alcohol consumption, the morality of the death penalty, the response to poverty, or hundreds of other things that are right there in the Bible.  </p>
<p>Why would we expect Christians to agree about whether it is sin to find that one is attracted to the same sex or what the moral response to such a discovery might be?</p>
<p>But I do think we Christians can all agree, liberal or conservative, straight or gay, young or old, urban or rural, that lying or deceiving others is not in accordance with God&#8217;s will.  So while we might disagree about the oppropriate translation of some word that didn&#8217;t even exist until Paul made it up, we can agree that Linda Harvey has a moral obligation not to lie about what you wrote to her.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s why we care about the accuracy of the story.</p>
<p>Did the administrators actually laugh at you?  Did they break into laughter deriding you?  Or did you only mean this in a rhetorical sense, suggesting that the didn&#8217;t really take you as seriously as you might like?</p>
<p>Did they actually use language that suggested you were bigoted and closed minded or was that just how you imagine that they perceive you?</p>
<p>This matters.  Because Linda Harvey has made accusations against specific individuals.  And she based her accusations on your email to her.</p>
<p>So if indeed Pat Williams or Randy Michael called you a narrow minded bigot and laughed at you, that&#8217;s a reason to be furious.  I would support efforts to have them removed from their position.</p>
<p>But if they did not call you a &#8220;narrow-minded bigot&#8221; and laugh at you, then we can all agree that it is a lie to say that they did.  </p>
<p>And we all agree that lying is a sin.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104974</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104974</guid>
		<description>Hello again. Here is the link to the website:
 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.missionamerica.com/agenda.php?articlenum=81&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.missionamerica.com/agenda.php?articlenum=81&lt;/a&gt;

Scroll down a bit and you will see this which is what I assume was your email to her:

&lt;blockquote&gt;“Kirksville High School in Kirksville, Missouri, IS participating in this Day of Silence and when speaking with both the principal and superintendent, they were very belittling. When asked if the students were allowed to not be in school that day or dissent, they basically laughed. They called me a narrow- minded bigot and refused to give excused absences. Please add this school the list so other parents in my town will know what is going on with their children.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

For clarity, it might be good if she amended that to reflect that your perception was that the admins thought you were narrow minded but they did not say that. Again, I think it might be good to have a conversation with them to get your views across. Having spoken to both of them, I would even be willing to be a party to it so you could feel heard and they could feel the same.

On the matter of a Christian approach, I invite you to consider the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goldenrulepledge.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Golden Rule Pledge&lt;/a&gt; by clicking the link to that website. I am convinced that people cannot be reached with any message if they are afraid of the ones delivering it. If Christians fear that their views are  belittled then they get defensive; if glbt people feel afraid of ridicule, then of course they will not consider anything said to them no matter how well intentioned. I am convinced that glbt people are afraid and defensive due to so many efforts to belittle them, bear false witness about their lives and families, etc. I hope you will examine the Golden Rule Pledge and consider a different approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello again. Here is the link to the website:<br />
 <a href="http://www.missionamerica.com/agenda.php?articlenum=81" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionamerica.com/agenda.php?articlenum=81</a></p>
<p>Scroll down a bit and you will see this which is what I assume was your email to her:</p>
<blockquote><p>“Kirksville High School in Kirksville, Missouri, IS participating in this Day of Silence and when speaking with both the principal and superintendent, they were very belittling. When asked if the students were allowed to not be in school that day or dissent, they basically laughed. They called me a narrow- minded bigot and refused to give excused absences. Please add this school the list so other parents in my town will know what is going on with their children.”</p></blockquote>
<p>For clarity, it might be good if she amended that to reflect that your perception was that the admins thought you were narrow minded but they did not say that. Again, I think it might be good to have a conversation with them to get your views across. Having spoken to both of them, I would even be willing to be a party to it so you could feel heard and they could feel the same.</p>
<p>On the matter of a Christian approach, I invite you to consider the <a href="http://www.goldenrulepledge.com" rel="nofollow">Golden Rule Pledge</a> by clicking the link to that website. I am convinced that people cannot be reached with any message if they are afraid of the ones delivering it. If Christians fear that their views are  belittled then they get defensive; if glbt people feel afraid of ridicule, then of course they will not consider anything said to them no matter how well intentioned. I am convinced that glbt people are afraid and defensive due to so many efforts to belittle them, bear false witness about their lives and families, etc. I hope you will examine the Golden Rule Pledge and consider a different approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Parent</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104964</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Parent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104964</guid>
		<description>I am still reading and you asked me to check out Ms. Harvey&#039;s website where she was still quoting my email. Could I have the link to that? I am not aware of all these particular sites as I stated before I just wanted to have our school added to the list of participating schools.  As for posting the original email it is what was quoted in the article. As I also stated I really never gave it a second thought or checked what I wrote it never occurred to me that it would go anywhere after all I am no one of importance. The thing that I do feel is of importance here is that my concerns were laughed at and while the administrators didn&#039;t use the words bigot or closed minded that was what they were saying to me. I&#039;m tired of my child being indoctrinated at school with views and beliefs that I find offensive. Homosexuality is a sin period. Does that mean I teach my child to speak hate I don&#039;t believe so. Teaching my child what is right and wrong is my responsiblity and that includes loving everyone while also taking a stand for what is right. Would I join those who hold up signs saying God hates gays no I would not but I don&#039;t feel that I should bow down to the current agenda either. To be honest I&#039;m more than a little confused about how Christians can reconcile being gay as ok. We are all sinners I screw up all the time so don&#039;t mistake my position as one that is holier than thou or whatever but the Bible clearly states that being gay is wrong. Maybe someone could explain where the question is on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still reading and you asked me to check out Ms. Harvey&#8217;s website where she was still quoting my email. Could I have the link to that? I am not aware of all these particular sites as I stated before I just wanted to have our school added to the list of participating schools.  As for posting the original email it is what was quoted in the article. As I also stated I really never gave it a second thought or checked what I wrote it never occurred to me that it would go anywhere after all I am no one of importance. The thing that I do feel is of importance here is that my concerns were laughed at and while the administrators didn&#8217;t use the words bigot or closed minded that was what they were saying to me. I&#8217;m tired of my child being indoctrinated at school with views and beliefs that I find offensive. Homosexuality is a sin period. Does that mean I teach my child to speak hate I don&#8217;t believe so. Teaching my child what is right and wrong is my responsiblity and that includes loving everyone while also taking a stand for what is right. Would I join those who hold up signs saying God hates gays no I would not but I don&#8217;t feel that I should bow down to the current agenda either. To be honest I&#8217;m more than a little confused about how Christians can reconcile being gay as ok. We are all sinners I screw up all the time so don&#8217;t mistake my position as one that is holier than thou or whatever but the Bible clearly states that being gay is wrong. Maybe someone could explain where the question is on this?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104748</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104748</guid>
		<description>Dave G,

You have really oversimplified the lives of gay and ex gay people.    You have never experienced a close relationship with someone who is gay and someone who is ex gay.  It is obvious from your words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave G,</p>
<p>You have really oversimplified the lives of gay and ex gay people.    You have never experienced a close relationship with someone who is gay and someone who is ex gay.  It is obvious from your words.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/05/20/wnd-day-of-silence-incident-reports-the-rest-of-the-story/comment-page-1/#comment-104747</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=911#comment-104747</guid>
		<description>Dave G,

Are you aware that I am ex gay?  And those three things you mention - well - there&#039;s alot more to it than just ignoring feelings.    You can&#039;t ignore the loving feelings you have for your wife - can you?

And as for the truth - don&#039;t you think that gay people have heard that old trumpet of your truth is the only truth?  I&#039;m sorry - but you  sound very inexperienced with gay people, ex gay people, and what they go through.  

You can&#039;t just ignore feelings.   That&#039;s like asking you to stop loving the people you love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave G,</p>
<p>Are you aware that I am ex gay?  And those three things you mention &#8211; well &#8211; there&#8217;s alot more to it than just ignoring feelings.    You can&#8217;t ignore the loving feelings you have for your wife &#8211; can you?</p>
<p>And as for the truth &#8211; don&#8217;t you think that gay people have heard that old trumpet of your truth is the only truth?  I&#8217;m sorry &#8211; but you  sound very inexperienced with gay people, ex gay people, and what they go through.  </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t just ignore feelings.   That&#8217;s like asking you to stop loving the people you love.</p>
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