Day of Silence and Golden Rule Pledge on Appalachian State University
As a result of the Golden Rule Pledge effort, I have met some really great folks. I am only going to mention one with this post but there are many more. I hope to share their experiences at the new Golden Rule Pledge website soon. I did want to here share one very early report from Jordyne Krumroy, a student at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. Jordyne was an early supporter of the Golden Rule Pledge and as you will see, used it as a springboard to mobilize Christian groups on her campus for outreach. She wrote to me today (Saturday, the 26th) with her experiences of the day. It is long but well worth the read…
Yesterday was the Day of Silence. A national event where students on their campuses are silent for the entire day to bring awareness to the silencing of LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) students. This community has been daily silenced by the name-calling, bullying, and harassment simply because of their sexuality. Many Christians are confused about how to respond to this day because they do not agree with homosexuality, but they do agree that hatred based on it is not acceptable.
This year I decided to get involved. I went to Campus Crusade for Christ as well as Intervarsity Fellowship to present the idea of participating. They both said they wanted to participate but I was absolutely astonished when Campus Crusade said that not only did they want to support it as individuals, but as a ministry. When I heard this, my heart was pounding- it was a prayer come true.
I can’t give you a count of how many students from the ministries actually participated. It might have been one, or many. But to me, it was their sincere desire to do something that really hit me hard. I have long been frustrated with the Christian community’s response to the GLBT group. When Crusade called me, a little piece of anger towards the church was cast away.Students at our school chose to participate by duct taping their mouths shut in complete silence, and when people asked why, handing them a slip of paper that explained. While I was more than fine with doing this, I wanted to do more. I wanted to make it clear that not only do I love them, but Christ does also. So I made my own slips, not to preach, but to break down the walls between the Christian and LGBT communities. The slips I made said this:
“Today I am pledging to be silent to bring attention to the name-calling, bullying and harassment experienced by LGBT students.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Luke 6:31
As a follower of Christ, I believe that all people are created in the image of God and therefore deserve love and respect.”
Yesterday morning, when I went to the SAGA (Sexuality and Gender Alliance) table to receive my piece of duct tape, I showed them my slips and told them that several ministries would be participating as well. The look on their faces was priceless. They were shocked, but ecstatic. This alone would have been enough to make my day.
But there was still more to be done. Eric Heistand from Campus Crusade for Christ had the idea of bringing a flower to the head faculty advisor of SAGA. We left flowers and a card that read,
“Dear Mary Ballard and SAGA: As followers of Christ, we want to stand beside you in silence to bring attention to the name-calling, bullying and harassment on college campuses around the world directed toward the LGBT community. We believe that all people have been created in the image of God and therefore have infinite worth and dignity. May these flowers and our silence be a symbol of our desire to show true love and concern. May they also be small step in breaking down some of the walls that sometimes divide us. In silence we stand with you, Jordyne Krumroy Eric Heistand on behalf of Campus Crusade for Christ.”
At 5 pm, the students who participated gathered at a theatre to break the silence by letting a scream go and then talking about their experiences. I was 10 minutes late due to a nap, but when I got there people greeted me with hugs, handshakes, and smiling faces. I discovered that Mary Ballard, the teacher who we gave the flowers and card, read the card aloud to the community.
People came up to me shocked. Over and over, people said to me, “Thank you. You don’t know how much this means to me. I’m amazed. Thank you!” The students seemed really surprised that a ministry, especially a Christian ministry would do that. I talked with several students, but one student spoke with me for a while. She told me that she was so surprised and couldn’t believe her eyes that she had to read the card twice even before it was read aloud. I’m so grateful for the relationships that were begun yesterday just by pledging to be silent for less than 24 hours. Later that night I went to eat with several of them and hung out until the wee hours of the morning. It was wonderful.
To those of you reading, I wish I could tell you in person because this day deserves more than a short summary. Yesterday, the LGBT community saw something revolutionary- they saw Christians loving them and more than that, they saw the love of Christ. What would happen if next year, hundreds of Christian students walked around with duct tape in silence?
I have to tell you about how I felt yesterday walking around in silence with duct tape. I felt humiliated at times, and other times proud. You see, everywhere I went, people stared. I felt like a leper, completely stigmatized from people. In fact, I was experiencing what the LGBT community has experienced for decades.
As I was walking to my dorm, I realized why 30% of LGBT students report having missed one or more days of school per year out of fear. Walking by a dorm, someone opened their window and yelled a derogatory statement to me. I was scared. There was such anger in his voice that I was fearful to walk by the dorm again later that day. I was reminded of Lawrence King, a 14 year old who was murdered because of his homosexuality just two months ago.
Yesterday was amazing. The best day of the year by far. The truth is, this group has been disappointed by the church. I know that as people read that, some will become angry with me. ‘Not my church’ they will say. But when “Christians” hold signs on campus that read, “ God hates Fags.” and “fags burn in hell,” the LGBT community associates that with Christianity. Many people have told me that they have never said anything derogatory to the gay community, but the problem is they haven’t said anything at all. You see, half of the church is screaming hate at them, and the other half is silent. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that silence is powerful. The failure to not say anything, has said a lot.
This [Golden Rule Pledge] was a great first step for me to get out there in ministry. So thanks so much to you!
I don’t know how to end this note, but hopefully there won’t be an end. This is just the beginning…
I have to tell you, I am moved and humbled. I am proud of those Campus Crusade and IVP ministries and others like them around the country who stepped away from fear and up to the plate. More stories to come…
Excellent!
I am standing up and applauding you ! This is what TRUE Christianity is all about. I am a filmmaker and I have been working on a documentary called For Such A Time As This for over 2 years. The vision for it has been on my heart for 18 years and this is it’s goal… to encourage people to reach out in love to the gay community. I wish I had interviewed you and would love to in the future. When this becomes the norm we will have made tremendous progress. We are at a very special time in history…these are defining moments …God wants the church door’s and our hearts opened wide so that ALL of God’s people can come people in…it’s TIME… it Is For Such A Time As This! Let’s keep going …it’s time to change the world one heart and miind at a time. God Bless you and thank you for sharing. Keep up the amazing work! http://www.hopeunlimitedproductions.com
This is wonderful - it really is - but it would be nice to start hearing conservative Christians not talking about the divide between Christians and the LGBT community as if these are always two separate groups - it comes off as patronizing at times and is ignorant of the fact that many gay people ARE Christians.
This young student did what was appropriate. She did not try to coopt the Day of Silence by presenting an alternative message. She held up the Day of Silence to speak out, not for the Golden Rule but to proclaim that gays and lesbians are harassed. That she herself was harassed for doing so speaks volumes.
Perhaps one day Christians in general will learn to follow Christ instead of the James Dobsons, Timothy Perkins, and Ken Hutchersons of the world.
My congratulations to this young Christian leader. Now if only her elders would follow Christ as well.
Warren,
This response goes so far beyond what I expected–especially for a first time effort. In my imaginings I pictured the silence, I pictured an exchange of the message cards but I didn’t even dream of the gesture of sending the rose and message of support to the GLBT leader. And to top that off with actually meeting face to face and hanging out for awhile. Priceless!
I appreciate this participant’s understanding of the distorted messages that the church is sending. I’d have given anything to be ‘a fly on the wall’ listening to that wonderful conversation that went on into the wee hours.
These are now people who have ‘connected’. When they pass each other on campus, they’ll now greet each other and occasionally chat. They’ll actually start taking interest in each other’s bulletin board postings and event announcements. I’d love to hear an update on this one in a few weeks or months!
Yesterday, the LGBT community saw something revolutionary- they saw Christians loving them and more than that, they saw the love of Christ.
This quote in particular is problematic - it seems to assume gay people and especially gay Christians have never experienced Christian love in action, and furthermore, doesn’t allow for the fact that many of the gay people may in fact be loving Christians themselves. I’m sure this girl didn’t mean to suggest these things, and I’m with Eddy, this connection is a wonderful thing. Perhaps when the two groups chat in the future they will both gain a new understanding for the other and treat each other as EQUALS who deserve both love AND respect.
That is my hope anyway
History has shown us that when those who have in the past been anti-gay really get to know gay people - intolerance and inequality usually don’t last long
I like the statement. Can anyone reword it so it’s not problematic? I don’t like the idea of changing it to ‘conservative Christians’ because there are gay conservative Christians as well.
Saying that ‘they saw the love of Christ’ isn’t suggesting that they had never seen or experienced the love of Christ. I can walk into a church and see and feel the love of Christ…something I’ve been seeing and feeling for years. But it is always good to see and feel it through people. It rekindles my hope.
I am so overwhelmed and happy!!! This is excellent news! This makes my day.
Wow!
I am impressed. This again forces me to question why Exodus cannot see to participate and endorse the Day of Silence as well.
Thanks for posting this.
She didn’t just say they saw the love of Christ - She said they saw something REVOLUTIONARY - which almost implies a never-before-seen-thing. That was my only point.
I don’t want to get into a drawn- out argument over her words and detract from the fact that this is a great thing that has happened - I just want some conservative Christians to be careful about the words they use and how they are sound.
How about just saying “some conservative Christians” or “some Christians” - it doesn’t have to be anymore difficult than that
Eddy -
She didn’t just say they saw the love of Christ - She said they saw something REVOLUTIONARY - which almost implies a never-before-seen-thing. That was my only point.
I don’t want to get into a draw out argument over her words and detract from the fact that this is a great thing that has happened - I just want some conservative Christians to be careful about the words they use and how they sound.
How about just saying “some conservative Christians”
Good grief - sorry - I was having browser/submission issues
I think your suggestion does solve the one problem but, unfortunately, creates another. The new wording would suggest that only conservative Christians have or have had issues with responding appropriately to gays. But we’re on the right track.
You are correct, even though there is a spectrum of inappropriate responses to gay people - some worse than others - and not all Christians have responded inappropriately.
And many who aren’t Christians at all.
Yes
If anyone was curious how Ken Hutcherson responded to the DOS, here’s a link to THAT article - I just ran across it about 30 min. ago:
Ken Hutcherson and the DOS
Exodus doesn’t really have much, if any, presence in schools or colleges so I’m not exactly sure how they would participate. Perhaps by next year’s DOS, they can direct people to Warren’s humble outreach.
Eddy and Jayhuck,
Is there any difference between how a Christian (conservative or otherwise) and someone of another religion or no religion responds?
The way Jordyne demonstrated her faith and belief leading up to and on the DOS is a very good example of allowing religion to enable rather than hinder doing what is morally right. She extended herself to reach out to others and get involved for their protection and in doing so, developed camaraderie and future friends.
She saved the best for last - “but hopefully there won’t be an end. This is just the beginning.”
Jordyne is a good friend of mine. She read my book (Loving Homosexuals as Jesus Would) about a year ago and I have been “coaching” her for a while now. I am so proud of her for putting her faith into practice so boldy! We should not just be agreeing with LGBTs that harassment based on sexuality is not OK, but as Christians we should be LEADING the effort to take a stand against those who ostracize and condemn those who are gay, regardless of whether or not we agree with them theologically. Jordyne is a shining example of what that looks like in real life.
ASU was my second choice for going to college. I’m perfectly happy where I’m at now, but I would have loved to have gone there just to have participated in this event. Way to go Jordyne! I’m especially proud of that campus’ Campus Crusade for Christ and Intervarsity. So cool!
Ann–
There shouldn’t be. I can appeal to a Christian since I understand the value system they subscribe too but many bullies, bashers and unconcerned bystanders aren’t Christian at all. I don’t want to overlook trying to communicate a “live and let live” attitude to them.
[...] Warren Throckmorton has a letter from a student at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. She, and the Campus Crusade, participated in the Day of Silence and found it to be rewarding and illuminating. To those of you reading, I wish I could tell you in person because this day deserves more than a short summary. Yesterday, the LGBT community saw something revolutionary- they saw Christians loving them and more than that, they saw the love of Christ. What would happen if next year, hundreds of Christian students walked around with duct tape in silence? [...]
I have a friend who attends University in Canada. The gay group on campus was selling flowers as a fund raiser for AIDS research. Even though a lot of the Christians on campus wouldn’t buy a flower because “that’s supporting homosexuality,” my friend Tyson was able to get his Christian group on campus to actually help the gay group sell the flowers. After all, EVERYONE should be against AIDS shouldn’t they? I can’t remember for sure if the Christian group was Campus Crusade or InterVarsity, but I know it was one of those two groups, and I was very proud of them for doing that because they took a LOT of heat from the ultra-conservative religious people on campus…
Eddy,
I agree. What I was referring to is that all people should be included and feel capable of doing what is morally right in their responses. With that kind of solidarity, any activity contrary to what the DOS and Golden Rule stands for will not be tolerated and certainly be met with a mountain of resistance to it.
Ann,
Is there any difference between how a Christian (conservative or otherwise) and someone of another religion or no religion responds?
Not that I can think of
The way Jordyne demonstrated her faith and belief leading up to and on the DOS is a very good example of allowing religion to enable rather than hinder doing what is morally right.
I absolutely agree with you
I think it would be interesting to hear from any gay Christians who might have taken part in the events and how they responded to the other, perhaps, more conservative Christians participating in the DOS this year.
These are just interesting figures that I wasn’t aware of. They come from the article I posted a link to above. The DOS was observed by approximately 7,000 high schools and colleges around the country, and the DOS has “been observed nationally for the past 13 years”. I feel out of the loop - I didn’t realize it had been around that long.
“I talked with several students, but one student spoke with me for a while. She told me that she was so surprised and couldn’t believe her eyes that she had to read the card twice even before it was read aloud.”
I was the one student in particular that she referred to. Jordyne is my new personal hero. I have talked with her for hours since Friday about the DOS and Christian/GLBT issues that society is faced with today. People like her give me hope for unity in diversity…something this world desperately needs. I have learned so much from her already and I’m hoping to join her in her cause.
As a member of the GLBT community that was raised in the “Christian” faith that was very anti-homosexuality, I developed strong opposition for Christians as a whole because of it. Jordyne, over these few days since the DOS has changed these misconceived views and I fully respect what true Christianity is and stands for. I plan on working with Jordyne in her future endeavors to help tear down this misguided wall that has been built between the GLBT community and the Christian faith. My hope is that both side can come together with love and respect for one another.
Chad,
Your work is a shining example. Your message and voice are welcome amongst the usual clatter. Thank you for helping bridge the gap between gays and christians.
Yes Chad - Its good to hear from you - Its been awhile
Chad,
Please include me in on what Mary and Jayhuck wrote to you - I share the same sentiments.
I think this is a formula we all can agree with. It doesn’t diminish the main theme that GLBT kids are subject to more harrassment than any other group: and it maintains a Christian message. It encourages the receiver to find out more about Christianity.
I think it’s rather less than half screaming hate, but they make up for the numbers by the volume of their voices. And the number preaching against hate is so small as to escape notice. That’s the main problem, and the reason why so many GLBT people are turned away from Christianity.
The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing. as Burke said.
I am confused as to where in this response that the Christians indicated that they don’t support the LGBT lifestyle. I agree with everything that was said on the card, but it is what was not said that was the issue. Looking from the outside in, this would give me the impression that Christians are supportive of homosexuality.
Matt,
We support people in their right not to be violated against in violent and malicious ways. We support people to be loved and cared about regardless of their beliefs and sexual orientation. We serve those who are oppressed, less fortunate, and suffering. And yes, we support homosexuals because they are people - no less.
[...] can read here about a student at Appalachian State University, Jordyne Kumroy, and Jordyne’s experience. [...]
The way the day of silence was approached was wonderful! This effort is exciting, encouraging and hopeful …
I agree that there are many wonderful spirit-filled Christians who happen to be gay. I have interviewed and met hundreds if not thousands of them over the past 2 years while working on my documentary, “For Such A Time As This”.
I have also met and interviewed many wonderful ex-gays and ex-ex-gays and all the key players from “both sides” of “the divide” in for lack of a better word the “culture war” on this issue and unfortunately there is still a divide. I interviewed people from Love Won Out, Love in Action, Focus on the Family, Exodus, and I even interviewed Dr. Throckmorton and Chad Thompson. Hi guys! We have some of the founding members of Love in Action and Exodus. Kent Philpott, Frank Worthen and John Evans and Michael Bussee to name just a few.
There are many people who are being a wonderful examples of Christ’s love to the gay community. I wish they had the loudest voices and we’re heard more often in the main stream .
It is obvious to most followers of Christ that the greatest commandments are to Love God and to Love your “neighbor” as yourself. Simply put to ” Love one another!”
My hope is that people can learn to agree to disagree if necesssary but treat each other with dignity Love and Respect at ALL times in ALL places with ALL People!
We have been disagreeing about things within the body of Christ for a very long time…perhaps people are finally starting to “get it” and realize that our job is to love and meet people where they are . if God wants to “change” something or someone HE will be the one who facilitates it not us..I think it’s important as Christian’s to allow God be God …. then we might all be able to stop doing our best impressions of Him . It’s so easy to take other peoples inventory, isn’t it? I’ve been guilty of it myself ! ! I’m pretty sure we’re just supposed to invite ALL the people into God’s house and let him sort out everyone’s issue’s.
Many Christians don’t seem to realize that by being exclusive and trying to pick and choose the members that we are in a sense “aborting souls” ( an extreme term but it seems appropriate) by turning people away and leaving them “outside” with the impression and the message that God “hates them” we are doing tremendous damage in the name of Christ. There is still a lot of “repair work” that needs to be done. This story is an example of the “repair work in progress” we all need to do our part.
God is no respector of persons and if we are going to exclude “sinners” we might as well close up all the churches and go home. We’re all sinners…saved by Grace. When we start measuring other people’s “sin” we end up condemning and judging ourselves. Why is that not preached more often from the pulpit?
Judge Not, lest WE be judged. I’m just hoping that we are in a time of a GREAT AWAKENING! Let’s hope so. It ok to reach out in love to the gay community , if I’m reading my bible correctly I believe we are commanded to reach out to everyone that way.
Keep up the great work!
Lisa,
As a once gay activist and now ex gay - I am eager to watch your documentary. Leaving homosexuality did not include forgetting that gay people deserve respect. Becoming a christian did not make me a ranting right wing supporter. It made me a christian. You rock!!!
Lelia-
How great of you to stop by and bring more of the story. Please come back.
Lisa–
Very well said. Thank you!
Mary–
I thought your response to Matt was a keeper. Well said and point made.
Zoe–
You said:
and I not only agree with you but I think you said it memorably!
Lisa,
Thank you so much for this acknowledgment of their existance - many gay and lesbian Christians will be thankful
I agree that there are many wonderful spirit-filled Christians who happen to be gay.
Hi All,
Thank you for your support. It’s nice to find that some people actually agree on something. It was extremely discouraging perparing for the DOS and trying to get christians involved. I felt very alone.
Here is my question: what are we as individuals going to do from now until April 25, 2009? I am so thankful for what happened last friday, but I don’t want to have to wait until next year to do the same. Perhaps we can facilitate discussion on practical ways that we can love this community specifically more and more?
It’s been fun reading all the comments! Don’t stop posting.
Jordyne,
I can’t think of anything as big as the DOS that you could take part in again, but my advice would be to just stay involved with the community. You could get involved in some of the other events hosted by the gay campus group? And I don’t mean to sound patronizing by saying this but just treat your gay neighbor as an equal, with love and respect - as you did when you participated in the DOS. There is nothing worse sometimes than a Christian on a mission, if you know what I mean
If there are gay and lesbian Christian activities you might join in on those as well. I wish you well Jordyne. Thank you for all you did to help out at your school with the DOS this year 
:)
Lisa says:
Jordyne and Jayhuck,
I’m sure you have probably met many already but there are some pretty amazing people out there that I would love to introduce you to…
There is so much happening…. “For Such A Time As This! This is a very special year and many of us our praying for HUGE break thru’s in the body of Christ and beyond. It’s beginning to happen! I believe people who are truly “connected” and are are listening to what the Spirit is saying to the churches will all be a part of this great awakening!
It’s time. 40 years ago some very significant things began. During the Jesus movement an Evangelist by the name of Lonnie Frisbee baptised thousands in the Pacific Ocean and Calvary Chapel , the Vineyard and the church grew in leaps and bounds. During that time this country experienced a spiritual explosion. Perhaps we are on the brink of another one.
Many came to the Lord during that time., Many people within conservative Christianity actually believed that Hippie’s couldn’t be saved . I’m reminded of the book of Act when folks didn’t believe gentiles could be saved. But the Holy Spirit was poured out on ALL flesh. And ALL means ALL!
God is NO respecter of person’s. Jesus was inclusive and His favorite people have always been the “outcasts” they have become mine as well. There is nothing more refreshing than someone who is REAL, HUNGRY and AUTHENTIC.
A few people I admired greatly believed as do I that the next great move of God will be among the gay community! ( Its happening!) But it won’t be church as usual…things need to change…hearts and minds need to open and be willing to accept that God is doing a NEW thing! Religion as usual just won’t cut it anymore! It doesn’t work and legalism kills people spirits. Grace is truly amazing and once you have tasted of God’s Grace you won’t want to be entangled again in a yoke of bondage.
The harvest is ripe….The only thing we need to do is Love people right where they are …God will take care of the rest.
It’s so simple that some folks will miss it but those who are called and are paying attention will realize we are living in a very exciting time in history. Walls will fall! They will come tumbling down in many people hearts and that is when real change will take place in people’s lives. But it won’t be as they may have expected…again God is doing a new thing.
http://www.hopeunlimitedproductions.com
I would love to talk with you at some point. I think we are sharing the same heart.
God bless you.
Lisa
Jordyne,
1. You rock! I was really moved by your story and am really proud of the Cru. and IV members who got involved. It’s really awesome.
2. This may sound weird, but I put your name in Facebook (it’s the thing for a college kid to do, people) and it turns out we have some mutual friends (I also go to one of the UNC colleges, and have friends at ASU). I was wondering if you minded if I added you? I want to learn from your experiences and see if I can do anything at my own college.
Hey Jay,
Thats fine. lol.
(did anyone see Lelia’s comment????!!!)
Leila,
I was raised in a liberal home and was a lesbian and now consider myself ex gay. I too have felt the “God hates you!” feeling from the church. But I am learning that there are some real heros (like the ones you’ve met) who are worth my friendship and investment. I am so glad that you were able to hear (through all the other muck) a real message of Christ. Sister - you belong to God and we are all in this together. Hope to hear more from you.
Thanks Jordyne for adding that in there, lol.
I don’t think i can ever be ex-gay…I figured out my sexuality very young in life…it’s not about loving a specific gender…it’s about loving a person. if you wanted to label me, i would be bisexual but it’s not a liking boys and girls thing- i like\love people. I was raised in a very southern traditional southern baptist church(es) that really preached against homosexuality which led to me having strong negative feelings about Christianity. I didn’t, and still don’t, see why I’m so wrong for loving people. Going through my early teenage years I took a look at my faith/views and realized it wasn’t for me. I struggled with the idea with a god, and came to the firm belief that I would never honesty/truly know if there was or wasn’t a god until I in fact died. I then decided I would live my life to be the best moral, compassionate, loving, helping, altruistic, good person I could possibly be and that I should hope that if there is a god, he/she/it would see the life I led, or tried to lead and would judge me fairly. I don’t deny that there is a god, I just don’t honestly know, if that makes sense (I guess this is called being agnostic and not atheist ). With that said, I fully support anyone’s right to practice whatever religion they think is correct. I even support my friends and attend some of their religious gatherings/holidays/observations to gain a better knowledge of what is different than me (I’m a diversity nut! I love other cultures/ideas/beliefs that are different than my own). Sunday night I went to a Christian Church gathering with Jordyne (as a side note, I was pleasantly surprised by the people that were there and how nice & down to earth & accepting they were…just like Jordyne!) and last Monday I witnessed my first Jewish Passover Dinner was well, which I found to be very neat and informative. I hope sharing my background/beliefs/sexuality doesn’t offend anyone, ya’ll seem like a very open-minded and accepting group
For being on the “other side of the fence”, I plan on helping Jordyne bring the Christian and GLBT communities together to develop peace, respect, love, and understanding amongst one another to end these bad feelings and misperceptions between the groups. I really appreciate the support you all have shown Jordyne and the GLBT community in respect that we are are people too and that we deserve no less than to be treated as a human. On a personal level, I’m finally seeing what a true Christian is and it makes my heart smile
Peace, love, & all things good,
Lelia
Lelia,
You are pretty awesome in your own right. Peace, love and all things good to you as well
Eddy said: “Exodus doesn’t really have much, if any, presence in schools or colleges so I’m not exactly sure how they would participate.” Funny. They sure don’t have any trouble figuring out how to get involved in politics or support outrageous comments by the likes of Sally Kern.
Here’s how: Next year, officially announce a “Golden Rule” approach and post it on the EXODUS website. Issue a press release. Then call and send letters to all EXODUS affiliates encouraging them to do something similar to what Jordyne has done. It would be easy. Will EXODUS do it? No.
Jordyne: You said “It was extremely discouraging perparing for the DOS and trying to get christians involved. I felt very alone.” Try not to be discouraged. Christians often resist doing the right thing — the just and compassionate thing — especially when it comes to the “gay issue” They are worried that they might look like they are somehow supporting the “gay lifestyle”. They are complacent and/or frightened. God Bless you, Jordyne and don’t give up. I imagine Jesus felt very alone at times too.
Michael,
Could you call or write Exodus and make those suggestions and offer/extend yourself to them as a conduit to make it turn out just the way you suggested? After that effort has been made then you will know whether they will do it or not.
Ann, I think maybe all of us should write or call Exodus. Why just Michael? We should all let them know about The Golden Rule thing and tell them to do this instea d of the “Day of Truth”
Jordan,
Good idea and I believe that is already happening. Michael had some very valuable suggestions that he felt Exodus would not carry out. I felt if he shared those suggestions with them directly and helped them follow-through then he would know for sure whether they would do it or not. Perhaps he already has and I don’t know it.
Mike Bussee has been offering his suggestions, guidance and wisdom for several years now….Mikey, do you think they are listening and will you try again?
We all keep hoping and praying for breakthroughs but they are coming slowly.
Eventually it will happen but with who is the key. The leader who has the strength of character and moral conviction to do the right thing will be the hero. That person will set things in motion and help change things forever. But who will that BRAVE soul be? Or who will those Brave SOULS Be? People are looking for permission to do the right thing! It’s time to stop being sheep and following the wrong leaders!
Politics and Religion DO NOT MIX. That is a toxic and dangerous cocktail. Someone will have to be willing to get back to the Gospel and put down their Political power and go up against the MACHINE. It is very much a David and Goliath story!
My friend Micah Qualls is being intimidated by Mike Huckabee a former “pastor “and Vice President hopeful who was responsible for getting her fired. She is a Christian who exercised her first amendment rights and is being rail-roaded and called a liar by powerful people in office who “claim ” to be Christian. Actions speak louder than words. The story is going National today.
We have been waiting on Alan for years to actually follow through with something he said he would do…It’s not happened yet. We continue to wait, pray and hold out hope. Perhaps it will be someone else who makes a lasting impression.
I mean no disrespect but I do wonder if it will ever happen with the same group of people who have had the opportunity for years to do something hopeful and helpful. Perhaps a changing of the guard is in order?
Wendy Gritter gave the best address EVER at an Exodus meeting and I spoke with Alan who was supportive behind the scenes, but did not want to commit as strongly publicly as he did quietly with several of us .
Wendy is someone to watch and listen to…she has her heart and her mind in the right place. She seems to be hearing what the spirit is saying to the churches. It’s time to put down the rhetoric and the politics and open the church doors to everyone. We need not wait for those who want to remain where they are…
Keep knocking! Keep Praying and Keep doing the right thing. Walk in love and do unto others! Love is the Answer! It’s as simple as that and when you err on the side of Love you will always end up in the right place.
As we all know, many people read this blog who do not write in. I’d like to think that those at Exodus are reading this and will add a link for the Golden Rule Pledge to their website. And honestly - Alan chambers? Are you there - aren’t you tired of being the puppet? Can you start leading with the conviction that is on your heart instead of treading in still waters with fear? I’m not trying to be mean - just trying to understand why this should even be a consideration.
Lisa,
Thank you for pointing this out - I did not know this or the extent to which it had been done. From the responses I have seen and received I am really unsure about a lot of things now. It often seems to me that for some it is more important to be right than build bridges.
Good luck with your documentary - it sounds really wonderful.
Ann asked: “Could you call or write Exodus and make those suggestions and offer/extend yourself to them as a conduit to make it turn out just the way you suggested?”
Ann, I have made suggestions and will continue to do so. I just do not believe EXODUS will do it. For example, inspired by Wendy Gritter, they said they would get out of politics (”mainly because God” directed them to) — and they haven’t done that. Alan Chambers said he wanted to “officially retire” confusing term “ex-gay” — and he hasn’t done that. Following the Berger and Schoenewolf debacles, Alan said he would dump NARTH “if they’re weren’t some big changes” — and he hasn’t done that.
I know that Alan and others in leadership positions at EXODUS read this blog and other blogs regularly — even though they don’t comment very often. They are listening. It’s the doing that they seem to have trouble with.
Another example: a couple of years ago, I noticed that the EXODUS web site had very strong statements about/against Hate Crime laws, but nothing about the hate itself. I began calling and emailing Alan Chambers — OK, I’ll admit it — I bugged him incessantly to adopt and post a clear and strong official anti-hate/anti-bullying/anti-violence policy.
It took over a year — and did not happen until I threatened to tell an LA Times reporter that EXODUS was stalling. Then, what they did finally come up with with rather weak — and is still not posted prominently on the EXODUS homepage.
So that is why I have little confidence that EXODUS will actually do something morally courageous related to the DOS — as Jordyne has done. It’s a resistance that I do not understand.
Michael,
I was just over at the EXODUS website and read the April 2008 letter from the president. Sad to say it was mostly about money and requests for donations. Nothing about Day of Silence, Day of Truth, or Golden Rule Pledge - all very big items in the month of April for those who are christian and/or gay. Everyone here - and those who are organizers - if you come up with a good plan where we can unite a strong and single message in some action - count me in.
Jordyne..
WOW. I am so encouraged and excited to see the Lord at work through you. As Christians, there is such a tendancy to embrace and even hoard the love of Christ for ourselves, and offer others nothing but hate or indifference.
I’m so excited to see someone I grew up with and worshiped with joining for a cause that is so worthwhile! Participating in the DOS through the Golden Rule Initiative has really opened up my eyes..
Im proud of you, girl!
Michael,
Thanks so much for your response. I’m sorry that I do not know as much about Exodus and/or your efforts toward them as others do. I always try to be articulate and informed about what I write but even in my best efforts I can see from the responses on this and other subjects that I have failed and that is disheartening.
I do understand your thoughts about Exodus and the reasons behind them now
Mary: Why am I not surprised? This was another opportunity, another teaching moment completely missed by EXODUS. I checked Alan Chambers and Randy Thomas’ personal blogs and there’s nothing there either.
I rechecked the EXODUS webpage. There is a press-release about the Day of Truth, which is described as “an opportunity for students to express an alternate view on homosexuality and to encourage a free exchange of ideas“. The DOT is also desribed as “an opportunity for students to express an alternate view on homosexuality and to encourage a free exchange of information on this issue and desperately needed answers beyond the culture’s hopeless, groundless ‘born-gay’ response.”
Come on EXODUS! The Day of Silence was in no way an attempt to promote a “hopeless, groundless ‘born-gay’ response.” It’s about doing what is loving and just — something Jesus would do. The EXODUS press release says </nothing specific about anti-gay bullying, hatred or violence. That’s only hinted at by offering “a series of video and print resources that help Christian students to understand the facts about homosexuality and to demonstrate compassion towards their gay-identified peers.”
Come on EXODUS. You can do better than that. Post Throckmorton’s Golden Rule Intiative on your website — and keep it there — taking a stand, boldly and specifically condemning anti-gay hatred and violence — not just peddling your videos and printed materials
Same old stuff different day…
Oh boy! Why is it that these christian organizations always position themselves in opposition to others rather than in union with the spirit to serve others.
EXODUS should have a tag line on their website:
“We care. But we would care more if you wanted to change.”
Jordyne, Lelia:
Please don’t be dismayed by the cynicism expressed here. Please don’t be misled by it either. You’ve probably never heard of Exodus and now you hear all this. Exodus is a loose-knit coalition of Christian ministries with specific concern for gays. It’s members are largely people who consider themselves ‘ex-gay’…most are living in a state of celibacy while a small number have moved on into heterosexual marriage. They regard homosexual behavior as sin yet recognize that it was God who reached out to them drawing them to salvation.
I was a part of Exodus for more than a decade; Michael was one of its founders some 30 years ago. I still believe that the behavior is sin but I don’t see it as any bigger than any other sin; Michael no longer sees it as sin and, I believe, sees it as a gift. And we have other exciting (and challenging) mixes going on. So, things do get ’snarky’ at times but, if you’ll notice the frequent commenters listings on the side bar, you’ll see evidence that we do we keep coming back. We’ve got that “Throck Connection”. (Which reminds me: Explore this site. There used to be an easy link to Warren’s music site. His band’s name is “Throckmorton“. If not there, I’m sure he’s on YouTube.)
I think I just got a brilliant idea. One of you asked ‘what next?’ What about the possibility of your two groups (or members from both) meeting to draft an anti-bullying statement? Perhaps for inclusion in the student handbook–or as a sponsored ad in a student publication. And make it so good, that other schools and churches would see its simple truth and they’d start posting it too.
If you like a sense of urgency, how about getting something together for the next edition of your campus newspaper: “Looking back at the Day Of Silence”. LOL! Campus Crusaders are probably as misunderstood as gay people are. Both groups could use the good press.
Lelia,
I also want to say how much I enjoyed your posts. I tried to write this earlier and echoed Jayhuck’s post to you but it didn’t go through. Anyway, my heart was full knowing the connection you and Joydyne made and how you want to work with each other to build this bridge and connect people. When you said that you realized what a true Christian was and it made your heart smile was one of the most important things I have ever heard and I find myself humbled because of it.
Since my first post didn’t go through - let me echo Jayhuck’s sentiments that he wrote to you in post #98911
p.s. - I meant to say Jordyne, not Joydyne
This gives me hope. I have been writing at my own blog (www.scg-wakeupcall.blogspot.com) about the need for Christians and the LGBT community to put down the swords and beat them into plowshares, if you will. And mine is from the lesbian Christian perspective. Hats off to those CCfC students. You did a very important, and truly Christian act.
Eddy said: “I still believe that the behavior is sin but I don’t see it as any bigger than any other sin; Michael no longer sees it as sin and, I believe, sees it as a gift.” Not quite. I see sexuality as a gift — like fire. It can warm or destroy. It all depends on how you use it. Sin is determined by the motivation of the heart, not by whether or not it appears on a list of do’s and don’ts. Man looks at the outward behavior. God sees the heart.
I concur Michael. I get Exodus’s newsletter/webpage too. You’re right about what is sin and what isn’t.
Usually sin could be explained as EXCESS of things that are vital to our lives. Like eating. We must eat, but gluttony will have attendant results.
Same as drinking wine or other alcohol. Excess will alter your behavior and competence and over a long period damage your body.
There is sex, within a monogamous and mutually supportive relationship, and then there is promiscuity with all IT’S attendant risks and results and disconnection from the spirit of love.
Excellent.
Matt Beeman said:
“I am confused as to where in this response that the Christians indicated that they don’t support the LGBT lifestyle. I agree with everything that was said on the card, but it is what was not said that was the issue. Looking from the outside in, this would give me the impression that Christians are supportive of homosexuality.”
This is the sort of response I always find fascinating. Why do you think it is always necessary to tell people you don’t support their “lifestyle”? It’s quite an arrogant presupposition.
You are assuming that every glbt person is having the sex you think is wrong. Why do you jump to this conclusion, and why is it any of your business to guess what people are doing in their own beds? There are many Christians who identify as gay but who remain celibate, and there are many other gay people who for whatever reasons are abstaining.
Can’t you just love people unconditionally?
[...] to Throckmorton, he can’t be that bad. He posts on his blog with pride this account of young straight evangelicals who took part in last month’s LGBT “Day of [...]
[...] never participated in. Nevertheless, I was very moved to read about the Golden Rule Pledge, and how it played out at Appalachian State University: Many Christians are confused about how to respond to this day [...]
Thank you Terence. It’s hard for people to love unconditionally when so much of the christian church still preaches a gospel of conditional love- obey God and he will love you. What if people discovered that God loves in spite of our sin? I think it could start something big.
Terrence,
I think that most o=f the church does teach that God loves us nspite of our sin. Hmmm - let see if there is an example from the bible???
Look…… David’s life.
mary,
To be fair…It is very rare to hear a message coming from the church about love that does not have a qualifier.
THe church says that God loves us all in spite of our sin but it is ALWAYS included with a message of repentance. God loves you AND will forgive you IF you repent. The love seems more of a motivation for the forgiveness than anything that stands on its own.
Eventually it becomes a subtext that God’s love is all about forgiveness. And if you aren’t willing to repent of that evil that I just know is in your heart, then God isn’t so very fond of you. So why should I be?
Timothy,
I am not arguing that some pastors and churches drive home the fact that God hates you when you sin. That is not what the bible teaches us.
I am driving home the idea that it is up to each christian to read the bible on their own and study like the Bereans to know what is the truth. Blaming a church or any other person that you learned that you were hated because of being gay - is folly on the person who does not read the bible and on the church who preaches it that horrible way.
And, when you hear that, I implore people gay and straight to reprimand the pastor and suggest to him/her to review the life of David.
Thoughts in response to Ray Boltz coming out. How will the church respond to a man that has reached so many through his music and ministry. On Friday in the Washington Blade and also featured in ChristianityToday, Ray told the country about his 30 year struggle and decided to finally tell the truth and “come out of the closet”. He is not leaving God. He is divorced and his wife and family are supporting him in Love. It will be interesting to see how the body of Christ responds. Is this a deal breaker? Will God let go of Ray Boltz and all the others who did not make it all the way to straight?
The church that he belongs to is very clear on sexuality. He may not like the idea that people will not agree with him and call his choice to partake in homosexual sex as not sinful. This is not a deal breaker. Christians who interpret the bible’s message on homosexuality differently than those who say the bible reads it as acceptable will always have theological differences on this issue. However, the issue and theology that we are to treat eachother with respect does not seem to be changed. That is constant.
In addition, becoming straight is not the goal of becoming closer to God.
Timothy and Mary,
After reading your messages (see block quotes below), I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessments of how many churches disseminate their gospel message. But I’m curious: what is your vision of the relationship between repentance and God’s love? It appears to me that both themes seem to be present throughout the Old and New Testaments- perhaps you disagree that both themes exist…I don’t know what you think, but I’m fascinated.
It’s my first post here, and I’m loving what I’m seeing. I’ll try to self-identify as an effort to be transparent. I consider myself to be a conservative evangelical Christian interested in expanding my knowledge of viewpoints that are different from my own. I lead a teen youth group at the church I attend and conscientiously look for ways more fairly present challenges about issues that I think the orthodox, evangelical church in general, and even our own Vineyard typically has wiffed on.
I like to use knowledge from outside of my own realm to try to sharpen my apologetic, even though I suppose that apologetics is like a sport: it is life-changing for very few outside of those who participate directly in it; for the rest, it is merely entertainment. I hold some very strongly traditional and conservative views, and some that (I think) are less so. For example, on the issue of whether or not the Scriptures cast all homosexuality outside the pale of orthodoxy, I think that its possible but not probable that the Scriptures do not preclude monogamous committed homosexual relationships. I’m not comfortable enough to come out and say the Bible completely prohibits same-sex relationships. But I have an equal amount of discomfort portraying any Biblical sanctioning of homosexual relationships. However, I don’t know that it much matters since the Scriptures seem to indicate (to me) that salvation is largely a matter of one’s orientation towards and beliefs about Jesus’ being the integral component in establishing an active living relationship with God characterized as justified and sanctified as per the Epistles to the Romans and Ephesians. If that’s the case, then I’d rather forsake the ninety-nine and go after the one by forsaking the argument about whether or not the biblical writings endorse any form of homosexuality and dial in on pointing a person’s understanding towards Jesus’ basic requirements for a relationship with God.
But, getting back to my original question: Since I do think that repentance is a key concept in the message, work, and salvific of Jesus, I hope both Timothy and Mary will comment on the life of David and how it informs of the relationship between repentance and God’s love because I recently heard an orthodox Jewish viewpoint on the David and Bathsheba story that absolved David of any wrongdoing. While those assertions are in direct opposition to everything I’ve ever been taught about the passage, and therefore were quite a shock to me, I was even more shocked when the short talk concluded with a teaching point that is completely harmonious with my Christian understanding of the story: that one lesson to be learned from the David & Bathsheba narrative is that a humble spirit and repentant heart are character traits valued by God.
Since that talk gave me pause, I’m anxious to hear other takes on the same narrative and what understanding it contributes to the relationship between forgiveness and repentance themselves, as well as forgiveness and repentance and the GBLT disagreement within orthodox evangelical Christianity.
…hmmm wish there were an edit button for grammatical errors…
e.g. “conscientiously look for ways to more fairly present challenges”
and probably others
Jamie,
On repentance: All should inspect their lives for areas of sin. It is not up to me to call out others on what they need to do if their theology is not mine. I have enough to handle in dealing with my own life and areas of sin. Having said that, for the areas that I am unaware of, I am certain that God will either make me aware of them and at the very least continue to love me even though I am ignorant.
If you want to talk to gay people who are christian and believe that being gay is acceptable to God then you may. I am not that person.
Just for your info: I am ex gay/lesbian, after that I became a christian. What I have repented for is not of your concern.
Jamie,
On the relationship between God’s love and repentance, I don’t think there is one.
God loves his obedient children. God loves his rebel child who seems always to have to be asking for forgiveness. And God loves the athiest who defies God.
Equally.
And that is the part that we as humans have such difficulty with. We find it much easier to love those who do good to us and so we assume that this is also the nature of God. Surely God loves good people and is, well, not so fond of the evil ones.
Few folks will come right out like the Phelps clan does and say “God hates Fags (or whoever they are protesting that day). But an awful lot of Christians will look at sinners and say, “God hates sin” with the very clear implication that the sinner himself isn’t far behind.
And because “God hates sin” it gives far too many Chistians carte blanch to hate sin right along with him and consequently treat sinners as though they are inferior and not worthy of equal status in society. Which is, of course, a great irony because one of the most egregious sins - one which is in violation of Christ’s two commandments - is to treat others as though they are inferior.
The grace of God is that he loves. And worthiness (or even a repentant heart) does not determine whether or not he loves.
And God grieves as much to see mistreatment of vile sinners as he does to see mistreatment of the righteous. And for that we should ever be greatful.
Because God loves everybody–including the rebel and the atheist–is there anyone who won’t be spending eternity in Heaven? (I’m assuming those of us who identify as Christians share a belief in eternal life. But I was shocked recently to learn that many see death as the end of it all. Some others believe in Heaven but not Hell and the Catholics also had Limbo and Purgatory.)
Anyway, eternal life is so much a part of my own definition of what it means to be Christian and I was taught–and still believe–that ongoing repentance when I’ve rebelled is a part of the ticket. I realize there are hordes of Christians who believe otherwise but I, personally, have not been able to shed this belief. It motivated my involvement with what’s come to be called ‘ex gay ministry’ in the first place. My own church and later, my bible school had public outreaches to bikers, drug addicts and users, bars and/or alcoholics, party crowds, nursing homes, hospitals, prostitutes, delinquents, neighborhoods, shopping malls…but they simply ignored gays…as if they’d abandoned all hope for them…as if they were all ‘already given over to destruction’.
Always willing to confront hypocrisy head on, I first challenged my pastor about his sermons and later started a specialized evangelism team at my bible school. My primary message was that homosexuals have just as much right to all of the graces of God through Christ as any other sinner. (I don’t mean to offend, I’m trying to be true to my recollections of my earliest motivations and the belief that it was one sin among many was a major part of my message. …that is another belief I have not been able to shed.)
But I’ve always tried to remain open to the possibility that I may be wrong. A number of times I referred clients to local gay congregations or support groups. They were all men who weren’t sure what they believed…and one or two who weren’t even sure if they believed–at all–even in God. I saw my role as only to keep their access to God open. Their hearts direction towards God was my major concern. (If they haven’t been convinced, as I have, that it’s a sin, then they aren’t necessarily rebelling or shutting their hearts to God when they act. It’s not my job to tell them what is and isn’t sin. I can tell them my beliefs and I can point them towards people who see it another way. But then, leave it between them and God.)
In short, it’s not as black and white as some of the other issues mentioned in the Bible. That allows for many to be in an area where they are doing something that many wrongfully believe ranks 13 on a scale of 1 to 10…and yet, they are in an open-hearted relationship to God through Christ. They are repentant in as many areas as they have been convicted of by the Holy Spirit. (And, even if it is a sin, who among us didn’t have a sackfull of other sins God wanted to help us overcome. Did any among us have instant victory over all of them…all at once? So, then who are we to set God’s priorities in what He wants to work on first and how speedily He needs to work?)
Eddy,
I pray for mercy for us all - his ways are not our ways. I cannot fathom what I cannot fathom. I am certain that I have some of it wrong.
Bravo Eddy!
Ray Boltz came out on Friday and this was inspired in part by him and all the other people who have struggled and felt abandoned by the Church.
None of us have all the answers but we are called to LOVE! I am clear on that one.
To those who have doubted Gods love and lost their way and to those who are being called ..let’s welcome them all!
I have been working on the documentary film, “For Such A Time As This,” for over two years and I have interviewed many of the key players on both sides of this major divide between evangelical churches and the gay community–including gay Christians. Homosexuality is the Pink Elephant in the sanctuary. The gay community has been excluded and exiled for far too long. It’s time we open the doors of our churches and our hearts and let ALL of God’s people IN!
This is one of the most important issues we face today within the church, within human rights and equality for all. The Constitution declares that we are to be treated equally, God says that all men and women are created equal and yet we do not seem to be able to embrace it. The time has come to address this topic honestly and openly. People within the church who know better are afraid to speak out because they do not want to lose income and their family members or become church outcasts themselves. It is amazing what people are willing to do to remain a part of a group that is likely to abandon them if you happen to mention that you are gay. For many churches the only “acceptable gay” is one who has changed or one who is on their way to changing. You may stay if you play the game. If you don’t experience change, you just need to pretend you are or continue saying you are in “process”. That will buy you a little time. A few gay people say they changed, but many ex-gay programs are recommending celibacy because change is unlikely.
A leading reparative therapist from a group called NARTH, The National Association of Reparative Therapist for Homosexualty told me in an interview that “you can slip or fall again and again and repent over and over and you will still be “one of us” but once you embrace a gay identity you are no longer “one of us.”
Somehow in the view of many church goers the perceived “sin” of homosexuality is greater than any other! How did the gay community become such a great scape goat? And what happened to the fact that we are, according to the bible, ALL sinners who are saved by God’s Grace? If our sins are forgiven then why do we continue to bring them up over and over again and hold them against each other.
Shame on all of us for participating in and perpetrating a fraud in God’s name. We seem unable or unwilling to recognize and admit the truth that has us in the condition we are today within this country and within our Churches,
Comedian Margret Cho declares with poignant humor,”Wow, you’re being really mean!” Truer words were never spoken. When Christians are commonly viewed in this light, it’s time to wake up and do something differently. Margaret goes on to say that she wished “Jesus would come back and say, ‘That’s Not What I Meant.’”
Synagogues, Mosques and many of our Faith communities must tell the truth. Telling the truth is a basic tenet and spiritual law expressed in every Religion and Faith.
Christian truth teaches that the ground at the foot of the Cross is level. It also teaches that Christ died for ALL people. ALL means all. Everyone is welcome at the table. Although many followers of Christ are exclusive and some think they have arrived and can determine who gets in and who stays out of Heaven. I have some news….that is NOT our job. God is the Judge. We are commanded to Judge Not lest we be Judged ourselves. I am keenly aware that I too will be judged by God and I hope my heart is in the right place when He checks it out. From what I understand He looks at our hearts and determines who truly belongs to Him by the condition of it.
While Christians police our Faith communities and each other to exclude entire groups or “types” of people we also spiritually harm and exclude valuable members of the family of God. Our greatest gift from God is Love. God really is Love. And when you have God in your heart you will reflect Love. NOT ANGER or FEAR or HATE but LOVE.
Lisa Darden
Filmmaker/Producer
Hope Unlimited Productions, Inc.
For Such A Time As This
Lisa,
As an ex lesbian who is politically liberal, I await your documentary. Yes!! We are all equal at the foot of the cross. As much as I try to go to church - I cannot get passed the bigotry that lingers. It is changing - however slowly. I am floored my the hatred of christians. I am tired by the gays who cannot hear me because of the christians who have laid a deep foundation of hate before.
Recently, I took a course on homosexuality and the church. I learned little. And nothing was mentioned about the mistreatment of gays by the christian community in recent times. I could feel the resentment - as if gays had taken over the country and someone was mad about it. Did anyone concern themselves with the violence perpetrated on gays in the name of “their” God? This was a paragraph at best by one student. And it is not a gay man or woman’s fault that they have been beaten. It is the fault of the person doing the beating. And this was not discussed.
Eddy,
So well stated - thank you. When I came to realize that God’s timing is perfect and that mine was not, it made my whole life easier and put everything into perspective. I still refer to God’s questions to Job and it always confirms to me that if I did know what God’s plan was, would I be able to understand it - something tells me no and to just trust because His plan is much to awesome for me to understand.
Mary,
Thanks for your HONESTY Mary! What you are saying is so critical.I hope people hear and really THINK about what you as an Ex-lesbian is saying. If I could turn up the volume and get this out to more people I would love it. People need to hear it in STEREO.
Mary said in response to my blog above: : “As an EX- lesbian who is politically liberal. Yes!! We are all equal at the foot of the cross. As much as I try to go to church - I cannot get passed the bigotry that lingers. It is changing - however slowly. I am floored my the hatred of Christians. I am tired by the gays who cannot hear me because of the Christians who have laid a deep foundation of hate before.
Can everybody read and hear that? Please for the love of God and HUMANITY Listen and read it again….. because It bares repeating!
This is the set up folks and GUESS WHAT? Christians who are judgmental , unloving, unwelcoming and critical and are really good at quoting Scripture to people who are gay are alienating them from the Faith…I’m sorry , they are alienating them from JESUS! I believe those people who harm a little one and will not allow them to come to the Savior because of their own prejudice against them are in for a RUDE awakening! Perhaps they will be held even more accountable.
What you are doing in essence is committing “Spiritual Abortion”. To ABORT means : To bring something or in this case someone or someone’s soul to an end at an early stage. In many cases people never reach out in the first place or cause the GLBT community to feel unwelcome and like second class citizens instead of the Children of God or fellow human beings that they are…. They are aborted and abandoned and left outside of the church in the gutters or in the trash behind the church building. Talk about a BLIND SPOT in the church. This is so bad that Lasix won’t help. This Blindness needs a miracle from the Master. It calls for AMAZING GRACE. I was BLIND but now I SEE!
We as a church need to SEE the error in the mistreatment and exclusion of the GLBT community. It is a monumentally HUGE problem that needs to be addressed immediately. The PINK ELEPHANT is on it’s hind legs and is blowing its trunk in the middle of the sanctuary in order to get our attention. WAKE UP CHURCH!
Gays are not ruining the family or the church…UNLOVING Christians are doing it All by themselves and teaching others to do the same in the name of God. WOW!
The difference between a fundamentalist Christian with Hate in their heart and coming out of their mouths and a Fundamentalist Muslim with a bomb in their hands set to kill , steal and destroy is… Nothing. They both have Hate Not Love in their hearts. Sorry but it is the TRUTH, we need to deal with it. It’s mirror time. Anyone have a LOG in their own eye?
ONE of the SINS of SODOM ( and this not gay theology, it is truth…ONE , I said ONE of of the SINS of SODOM was IN HOSPITALITY). Well Church are we Guilty as charged? Or not? After making this film and getting personally treated like trash by some of these “prominent ministries” and their leaders and after being threatened legally and lied to and gossiped about but never contacted personally by these leaders after I repeatedly reached out to them , I can say now that I know first hand what these people go through and how they are treated. Its not pretty , it is cold and cruel. And I thank God for allowing me to see it clearly. Perhaps that’s exactly what he wanted me to see…the TRUTH.
The picture that was painted and that I have now of these ministries is a far cry from the ministries I admired in my Christian Youth. These places are full of bullies and self righteous judgmental people who are pretending to love God. Lesson # 1 in Discernment 101 - If you love God You will love your neighbor. Lesson #2 You will know that they are Christians by their Love~! Lesson # 3 You will know them by their fruit . I experienced little to NO LOVE from some of these people and I was lie to and about. When the camera was on they performed, behind the scenes they were merciless, controlling, manipulative and arrogant. I tried repeatedly to work with them and they made it incredibly difficult for me.
The church owes an Apology to the gay community and needs to repent for the way they have treated this community. I would think the ex-gay community would have been greater advocates for the gay community , instead many of them ( no offense intended) have become some of the worst perpetrators of these crimes against humanity. Because the hate or disdain of their “former lives or selves” is so great that they forget the scriptural truth that says… there but for the Grace of God go I.
It will take humble and loving people who refuse to participate in injustice to make a difference. I don’t care what you approve or don’t approve of I care what God thinks. Let him be the judge.
Mary, tell the truth and do justice for people who have been mistreated. Go back in your heart and mind and imagine that it was you before you became ex-gay. How whould you treat Mary. Let’s all live by the Golden Rule and do unto other as we would have done unto us. And lets stop blogging about it and just flipping do it. That’s when things will change Faith is an action word,
God bless you Mary and everyone else on here.
Lisa
Lisa,
Thanks for the agreement and encouragement.
Becoming a christian never meant turning away from gays.
You may ask Warren Throckmorton for my private e-mail.
P.S.
I will not forget the poor treatment rec’d from the christian community. I want to be the person whom I would have liked to meet.
Lisa, Mary and everyone,
I have been interested and encouraged by reading your postings on this topic. I am a lesbian. I am a Christian. I do not apologize for either of those labels and I do not see them as inconsistent because they are simply who I am. Homosexuality is not a sin. The sin in any sexual orientation comes in how a person acts on their sexuality. If it is used to coerce someone into having sex who doesn’t want to, or have power over another person, or in any way disrespect the dignity of another, that is the sin. If the sexuality is expressed between consenting adults, and if it is coming from a place of love and respect that is not a sin.
To read that there are evangelical Christians who are beginning to see the error of excluding people such as myself, and are trying to pave the road toward God…as opposed to setting up stumbling blocks in our path…that is “good news”.
Lisa: so much of what you have said is what I have expressed on my own blog, and am doing what I can to find ways to knock down the barriers that have been erected in the median between Christianity (or any faith community) and people who are LGBT. The wounds are so deeply inflicted that finding forgiveness on both sides is a slow, long, hard and painful path. But the more people who will commit themselves to walking that path…the better our society will be. I really believe that.
Mary: your journey is your own. I do not question it. Maybe you will serve as that bridge to understanding…without judgment….the truth that God really does love everyone, really wants us all to come home and discover that love for ourselves. And nothing…save for our unwillingness to believe….can separate us from that love.
Thanks.
Hi Lisa,
I am not sure if this is correct - there are many, many other religions and cultures all around the world that teach against homosexuality and yet it is the Christians who seem to get all the blame. Is this fair? Why don’t we ever talk about other religions and what they believe about this subject? Christianity is a relatively new religion compared to others who have had long term beliefs against homosexuality - perhaps we need to stop separating religious beliefs and look more toward human beliefs.
Mary and Susan,
Thank you both for your heartfelt responses. We are ALL in this together. I don’t want to OVER Spiritualize this but TRUTH be told if change is to come and I believe it will , because it is inevitable we must work together. The US vs. THEM mentality is what got us ALL stuck here in the first place.
It is HARD WORK and it is difficult to forgive people who have treated you so badly. People make a big deal ( Rightfully so) about the Catholic Priest abuse scandal but honestly the abuse perpetrated against the gay community by many Christians has been and is equally devastating and horrifying.
Spiritually. I think if people could actually see and recognize the damage done (once again) in Christ’s name to the gay community and other “outcast” in our communities they would I hope and pray finally repent and start working towards welcoming and loving the people that have been so injured. But those people who were harmed may not trust you for awhile. Trust is built over time and with consistency..
People need a new Revelation of God’s all encompassing Love. The box WE put God in is not HIS …it is OURS.
There are people and churches that have already had this Revelation, and I believe it takes a Revelation from God to totally GET what The Spirit is saying to the churches.
Many who read this will go into over drive and get defensive and will start playing COPS 4 CHRIST. Some will say it’s the end times and The “Homosexual Agenda” is running rampant and trying to infiltrate the Church. Christ is coming for a church with out spot or wrinkle. And I will say to you that FEAR is NOT from GOD.
There were compounds in Waco and Ghana that believe they were the chosen one’s and were built on similar doctrine. It is easy to fall into a cult like mentality and view the world in an US vs. Them mentality. The problem is that you end up cutting your self off from God and other people when you are unable to Love. It is FEAR BASED FAITH not LOVE BASED FAITH. The God with the hammer whose ready to pounce and punish you is not the God we call Jesus Christ.
There is a scripture I am using in the film and believe it is For Such A Time As This-
It is: Isaiah 43:19 See I am doing something NEW. “Now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? The Lord is doing something NEW. He is opening wells of life giving waters, which have been closed for many decades, (Genesis26:18) The Lord is also digging new wells (Genesis 26:19-33) He is giving us waters of new life that we have never had before. The Lord in His Mercy and by His power, is changing the spiritual landscape and climate.
Forty years ago during the Jesus Movement- the Church had a hard time believing that Hippies could get saved. Drug Taking, Free loving, Crazy Long Haired Freaks and look what happened. What if Jesus uses the foolish things of the world to confound the “wise”…what if Jesus is planning to reach and use the gay c