How can one actually qualify an ex gay? Marriage to the opposite sex? Gay people do that all the time.

How one dresses, speaks, what sports they play or their social network, the profession they are in?
No one dare ask the quality of sex they are having or if it’s all they wanted and expected it to be.
Which is actually the very thing no one WILL probe in polite society.
So we sit around here and try and make nice, and meanwhile, as I said…the mutability of one’s sexual orientation is ARGUED in courts as a justification for discriminatory laws.

The bottom line: what kind of mind is it, that believes giving a broken toy to a needy child is still an act of supreme charity and goodness?

Ex gays who would LIKE for straight people to be nice to gay people don’t seem to get that CONVERTING gay people IS an act of charity. The poor, struggling gay person is redeemed and better off being heterosexual.

Ex gays are people trying to hand off something THEY no longer want, and in doing so, cannot defend.
And gay people have a terrible time defending who THEY are. Which makes ex gays (who are legally and institutionally free and are no longer burdened by being gay anymore) look self serving. The intentions of charity and protectiveness towards gay people looks like lip service, because the RESULTS of their conversion does damage.
And being in denial of the damage done to gay credibility is and could be unforgivable.
There are enough ex gays out there definitely hostile to gay people. And whatever charity or advocacy Mary and Warren espouse, as I’m saying for the nth time, is rendered WORTHLESS by their assertions of conversion.
Period.
And as for some charity being better than nothing, I also said that their charitable goals are NOT ENOUGH to counter the beliefs and confusion out there.

There is such a thing as a person blundering with the best of intentions and screwing up royally instead.
And it makes me angry when someone won’t accept just how badly they ARE screwing up.

Would it help if we try to define what “change” means? Regan – change often doesn’t mean moving from being gay to being straight if that helps.

Good luck.

“The significant problems of our day cannot be solved with the same consciousness that created them.”- Albert Einstein

Christianity in particular and heterosexuals have created the problems that homosexuals struggle with. And you have now made a comparison of homosexual orientation with substance addiction.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality are one in the same. Even so, a heterosexual has trouble empathizing with or accepting that-this is what has to be reinforced, NOT the consciousness that has abused, murdered and isolated gays and lesbians for so long.

Yet you are defending and trying to reconcile BOTH in your mind what cannot, no matter how much you insist it’s possible, it is NOT.
It does NOT MATTER what you would LIKE to happen, as long as you give the consciouness that created homophobia ANY degree of saying their conscioness is correct.
And that YOU’RE proof that it is. So, you’ve given proof to those most vested in gay people changing to not invest in anything different. You demonstrate THEIR course works, you give them more power, not less. And keep THEIR consciousness clear.

This is why I cannot and have not empathized with you on that. Not even this persecution complex also demonstrated by ex gays.

Of course you can disagree that this dilutes priority and urgency from the needs of gay people.
But you can disagree with anything that simply won’t make you feel better in your mind.
Gay people ARE screwed because of you and what you’ve said on this thread.
And you just don’t want to believe it, or feel that being good to them is demonstrative enough for others to follow who are homophobic.

Your defense is weaker for gay people, than it is for the consciousness that created the problems for them.
And even those who agree with being nice to gay people don’t have to agree that they marry or conduct GSA meetings for gay youth in their schools.
And still, you’d just as soon inject the agenda of conversion wherever you go too, further taking away from the defense of gay people, to defend ex gays.

So, by doing this you weaken the defense of homosexuality, not just rights for gay people AND you strengthen the defense of ex gays, heterosexuality and the church, which has ALWAYS been VERY strong.

And you tell me people are in favor of stories like yours. Well, maybe there was no elaboration on their part. Or maybe they haven’t had the time or concern to think it through as I have. So that tells me nothing.

It’s not easy to tell an ex gay how their behavior is the ruin of other people’s defense of their orientation, is there?
And most of then don’t CARE. They are radical and hostile against gay people and of course, would see you as a traitor as well for defending gay people’s rights, if not their orientation.

That is what turning two faces to the world can do. This is the wrong subject to have two faces with. It really is. The issue of homosexuality and gay rights cannot withstand it.

And you disagreeing with that, doesn’t make that fact GO AWAY.
Now, perhaps you see what you’d LIKE to do as better than anything else. And Dr. T’s suggestion might have it’s uses, but how to implement it?
It might.
But that’s not very reassuring considering what we’re up against.

Indeed, I’m not reassured by you at all, Mary because you haven’t engaged the most important part of this whole discussion.
What I’m getting is that being ex gay is more important to you than anyone or anything else because of the freedom to make such a profoundly personal decision. That the defense of it doesn’t carry or shouldn’t carry any consequences for yourself or gay people.

But it does. There is no other way it couldn’t because of history, social context and not much choice for other gay people in avoiding the expectations others have they do the same.
And since ex gays are more important to the world than gay people, and OTHER ex gays-there is no room for gay people all over again.
You need reassurance that you’re doing right, that in your heart it’s going to help.
I know what works and what doesn’t Mary. And who you chose to be, won’t make it work as well as you’d like.

The Coming Nightmare of a “Transsexual Rights
and Hate Crimes” Law in Massachusetts:

…transgender/transsexual” activists… want to offer your children on the bloody altar of transsexuality — pulling them into sex-change operations involving unimaginable bodily mutilations and hormonal manipulations.
…
The culture of death has created a compulsion in the souls of the homosexual radicals and their “trans” allies, driving them ever further into new perversions. There is no bottom to this pit of depravity, and they will drag many innocent victims along with them: the young, the lonely, the psychologically and physically wounded, the confused – including some of your children and grandchildren, family, friends and neighbors. There will be no safe haven. You cannot cocoon in your homes or churches. Our public schools, businesses, public accommodations (which may include churches), your employers and insurers, will all be forced to yield to yet-undefined perversions, protected by law.

Given the nature of those against us, it won’t be easy, will it? That one’s from MassResistance, BTW.

And from Oklahoma State Representative Sally Kern (R), about “The Homosexual Agenda” :

“I honestly think it’s the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.
…
Another thing that I’m real big on that is a real detriment to this society is evolution. Evolution undermines Christian principles. Period. That’s all there is to it. You either believe there is a creator or you believe there isn’t.

I think you can see why many who have experienced the violence that the DOS protests against might see your quest as Quixotic, and even detrimental to what is a silent protest in the best Christian tradition. Nonetheless, as I’ve stated before, I think it worthwhile. Not for the Gay kids, but for those unfortunate enough to have parents whose views are accurately expressed above, so they don’t face ostracism in turn.