Comments on: Disputed Mutability on Love Won Out http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/ A College Psychology Professor's Observations About Public Policy, Mental Health, Sexual Identity, and Religious Issues Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:21:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: jayhuck http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/comment-page-1/#comment-73623 jayhuck Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:37:33 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/#comment-73623 Warren, I'm really glad you posted this. The few times I've read the writings of DM I have truly enjoyed them. I pulled what I think is one of many good quotes from this latest piece: <i>It seems odd to me to offer a criticism of an opposing view that applies equally if not more so to your own. To the best of my knowledge, the developmental-theory fans don’t even have a flawed, unreplicated study supporting their view yet. (If they do, why aren’t they mentioning it?) They dwell on the failure of science to fully support strictly biological/genetic theories, as if that in itself were support for their own theories. Which hardly follows–the developmental theory doesn’t get to win by default! </i> Warren,

I’m really glad you posted this. The few times I’ve read the writings of DM I have truly enjoyed them. I pulled what I think is one of many good quotes from this latest piece:

It seems odd to me to offer a criticism of an opposing view that applies equally if not more so to your own. To the best of my knowledge, the developmental-theory fans don’t even have a flawed, unreplicated study supporting their view yet. (If they do, why aren’t they mentioning it?) They dwell on the failure of science to fully support strictly biological/genetic theories, as if that in itself were support for their own theories. Which hardly follows–the developmental theory doesn’t get to win by default!

]]> By: jag http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/comment-page-1/#comment-73612 jag Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:32:26 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/#comment-73612 Thank you for your post AM. Thank you for your post AM.

]]> By: AM http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/comment-page-1/#comment-73595 AM Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:53:51 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/12/19/disputed-mutability-on-love-won-out/#comment-73595 Hmm...well, my ex-gay history personally goes back to the mid to late 80's with Homosexuals Anonymous. What hasn't changed in ex-gay theory to any great degree is the lynchpin of Moberly's book on Reparative Therapy. I can see the book passed around the room like it was yesterday..almost as though it was the Code to a New World which we hoped it would be for us. The assumption however that if the shoe doesn't fit, leave it alone, perhaps does apply more today than back then. Because today we have ex-ex-gays like Peterson Toscano coming forth, saying that 17 years of "repair" did not a hetero make. Those of us in that small meeting room only heard that we just weren't repaired *yet*...just keep going, pressing forward. But if you have Christian gay people with same sex orientation who believe that gay relationships are a sin under any circumstance, of course they will grapple for *any* thread of so-called hope. Why wouldn't they? To spend an entire lifetime alone, in celibacy, ostracized still from many in the church. Well, duh. We didn't consider it a waste of time: tell someone he/she is messed up enough, that God delivers, wants you "whole", heterosexuality is His *only* plan for humanity and you've got all the ingredients for a recipe that will take. I don't fault us for believing: we didn't know any differently. (There was no Internet ;-) in which people could come together and "compare notes".) We wanted more than a bleak future and wanted to rid ourselves of this which we were taught did not please God; actually really angered Him in the Romans 1 reading. What I'm saying is that after someone "arrives" as DM seems to have -- hetero with all the accoutroments -- don't dismiss the ongoing desperation that some Christians still find themselves in -- those who married and couldn't faithfully go that trip, etc... That trying to fit a square peg in the round whole with the theories is not so absurd after all with the life circumstances many of us found ourselves in. Hmm…well, my ex-gay history personally goes back to the mid to late 80′s with Homosexuals Anonymous. What hasn’t changed in ex-gay theory to any great degree is the lynchpin of Moberly’s book on Reparative Therapy. I can see the book passed around the room like it was yesterday..almost as though it was the Code to a New World which we hoped it would be for us.

The assumption however that if the shoe doesn’t fit, leave it alone, perhaps does apply more today than back then. Because today we have ex-ex-gays like Peterson Toscano coming forth, saying that 17 years of “repair” did not a hetero make. Those of us in that small meeting room only heard that we just weren’t repaired *yet*…just keep going, pressing forward.

But if you have Christian gay people with same sex orientation who believe that gay relationships are a sin under any circumstance, of course they will grapple for *any* thread of so-called hope. Why wouldn’t they? To spend an entire lifetime alone, in celibacy, ostracized still from many in the church. Well, duh.

We didn’t consider it a waste of time: tell someone he/she is messed up enough, that God delivers, wants you “whole”, heterosexuality is His *only* plan for humanity and you’ve got all the ingredients for a recipe that will take. I don’t fault us for believing: we didn’t know any differently. (There was no Internet ;-) in which people could come together and “compare notes”.) We wanted more than a bleak future and wanted to rid ourselves of this which we were taught did not please God; actually really angered Him in the Romans 1 reading.

What I’m saying is that after someone “arrives” as DM seems to have — hetero with all the accoutroments — don’t dismiss the ongoing desperation that some Christians still find themselves in — those who married and couldn’t faithfully go that trip, etc…

That trying to fit a square peg in the round whole with the theories is not so absurd after all with the life circumstances many of us found ourselves in.

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