Mankind Project technique: Bucketing, Part Two, “Killing Daddy”
Yesterday, I posted a portion of a manual published by the Mankind Project for leaders of the Integration Groups (I-Groups). I excerpted a portion of an exercise called “bucketing” where one may include another man as a stand-in for an issue one has with another man.
While this technique might be of some benefit with skilled facilitators, I see potential for men to process wounds in ways that might not be helpful. Age regression techniques can mislead the person being regressed to incorporate a narrative that may be a reconstruction of events rather than a true account. These techniques, promoted by some therapists, are not universally accepted.
According to a former New Warrior, this bucketing technique, along with another process known as clearing, can lead to disturbing experiences. The following account was sent to me via email:
This is a MKP process where you “kill” someone in proxy. It is often the father but can be a mother or someone else. I’ve even seen MKP have men “kill” God. Actually I was instructed to “kill God” by MKP leaders but I refused. There is something in MKP called a “God split” this is where a man kills God and gives himself is own god of his making, usually himself. This is a necessary step in the MKP ladder. For a man to become an “inner King” he must “kill” God first. King is one of the four quadrants of the four archtype circle, those being, Warrior, King, Magician, and Lover. These are loosely based on Jung’s archtypes.
Well back to “killing dad.” In these killing processes, one man stands in proxy for the person who is being killed. Cushions and pillows are placed before him. The man who is to kill has a baseball bat, tennis racket, etc. He hits the pillows and cushions over and over right before the man standing in proxy. The man continues hitting and yelling at his “daddy.” The “daddy” gives insults and calls the man with the bat names. These are names that are brought out earlier before the “killing” begins in a “bucketing” process. Eventually “daddy” slowly begins to “die.” He begins to sink slowly to the floor pretending that he is being hit and hurt. He eventually pretends to be dead. This can take many minutes. This usually occurs when the man with the bat is near the point of exhaustion.
This process looks like gestalt psychotherapy to me. I did it several times to my “dad” at MKP meetings. The reason that they stated I needed to do it over and over was because I didn’t kill my whole dad, just one part of him that hurt me. I needed to kill every part that had “bad energy.” This could take many meetings and workshops to accomplish.
After the process is done there is the de-role process, there the man standing in proxy says “I’m not your father, I’m your brother ‘Jim’.” The man then repeats it to him. Then the process complete, at least for now.
This description sounds like two other accounts we have seen before. First, the “rage therapy” documented in Divided Memories. Hear a survivor of Genesis Associates discuss the rage therapy:
Another reference for tennis raquets and pillows, of course, is what Richard Cohen calls “bioenergetics.”
I asked Mankind Project, Executive Director, Carl Griesser for a comment on the proxy process described above and he was not able to comment today. He did say he was thinking about how to respond and would be in touch. I am looking forward to this.
Actually, they refer to “Bioenergetics” by name in the Facilitator Manual you have linked to in the last post. It’s on page 71 (76 in pdf). I’ve noticed a general similarity to Cohen’s techniques and philosophies, and this seems quite specific.
Back in the mid 1980′s there was an organization called “Mindspring” – I attended a weekend, Thursday night to Sunday afternoon. I cannot remember how much it cost but it was in the hundreds. They believed in sleep deprivation to make one vulnerable and did various techniques like the one where you use another person to get out your rage. One side of the room against the other and then it dwindled down to one person against the other. I had a very difficult time because it seemed so weird to me to do this but noticed others didn’t. It was mostly men and women raging at each other rather than the mom/dad thing. Also, we had to lay on the floor and have a facilitator hold us when we cried – that felt very weird too. There were some other very bizarre techniques they used and I remember several people who felt very intimated and somewhat scared. After we “graduated”, we were at first asked to join the more advanced groups, which of course cost money, and guaranteed to go to a “higher level”. Everytime I said I wasn’t interested, the phone calls increased and the tone of the “facilitator” became more hostile. Then the negative accusations came about how I was not complete yet, etc. – finally they stopped. I originally went to the weekend because my boss at the time raved about it and insisted the people who worked for her go. I was so young at the time and felt my job would be jepordized if I didn’t. There were some good exercises but some were also very risky for others and rather offensive for most. We were yelled at, accused of things we were not, if we didn’t want to participate in some of the more bizarre experiments, we were put in a room with a facilitator who would say how weak we were, etc. I know this is nothing compared to the New Warriors experience but it brought back some memories for me. I just tried to look up Mindspring and only see a company for employment coaching. There was also another kind of organization like this that originated in Big Sur but I cannot remember the name of it – started with an “E” I think.
Esalen?
I thought that was it but am not sure – I actually think it was another one, more along the lines of Mindspring’s methods.
oh, another exercise was where you broke off into groups of maybe 4 or 5 – they turned off the lights (which they did for many of the exercises, while the facilitators used flashlights) and the facilitator told us we had to take off the mask we showed the world everyday and tell each other who we really were – I remember a couple of the other people in my group were really crying hard and the facilitator would kneel down in front of them and talk very authoritive and loud saying “take the mask off, take the mask off”. When it came to my turn, I said “that sometimes when I feel hurt I have to act like I am not” – the facilitator said I was being phoney and not trying hard enough to take off the “real” mask because what I said wasn’t enough and that I wasn’t crying so I was “hiding” something and that they would just keep staring at me until I told the truth. He was talking very forcibly and very loud. I then said something that wasn’t true (really cannot remember now what it was) just to have the attention be diverted from me because it was horrible.
You may want to reference:
“Life 102: What to do when your Guru Sues You” by Peter McWilliams.
He talks about the various techniques described above used by his former cult leader: John-Roger.
Ariana Huffington may have been associated with him.
David,
Ariana Huffington WAS associated with him!
Dr. Throckmorton,
I believe the name of the other organization was called Synanon – I’m pretty sure that was it. Esalen was very mild compared to them.
I found a great article on Ariana Huffington for anyone who is interested. I never really knew much about her – and I had no idea she used to identify as a right-wing conservative. Here’s the article for all interested parties:
Article on Ariana Huffington
I have learned that in addition to bucketing, the lion’s share of the killing someone technique is done in “carpet work” or “GUTS work.” Essentially the techniques are like the Rage Therapy in Ofra Bikel’s documentary.
Warren,
I ran onto an article today about the Mankind Project written by Wayne Besen. He didn’t seem to care for the project, but he did say that after his initial article was published he received several e-mails from gay men who had been a part of the project. They did support the New Warrior program and said that it helped them accept their same-sex orientation. Has anyone been writing you from this perspective?
I have posted here before. Regarding the safety of MKP’s work. What I believe a man (or woman) gets out of the above description of carpet work or bucketing is catharsis. However having participated for several years in MKP I think these process go awry often. The process is controversial to begin with much less having those unqualified fascilitating it. I also think MKP steers away from the man make his own cognitive distinctions and these distinctions are then provided for him while he is most vulnerable. The problem as I see it is abuse trauma is often complicated. When men reinterpret the details of a past event it becomes real as “they” see it and not as it may have occurred. I have experienced men telling me what happened which did not happen. Furthermore there are often cohersive and even bully tactics applied to get men to do the work and often in a “group think” sort of way. I have no idea if such tactics still occur.
There may be some value in catharisis or just letting off steam. But the inaccurate recreation of a scenario I have found disturbing. Furthermore there is a sort of cookie cutter archetypal ideology which in my opinion grossly deviates from Jungian theory. For example the idea that everything goes back to one’s parents.
Discussing objections to the work is often seen as “in your head” intellectualism and is discouraged. But it seems to me that such discussion is in much need within MKP. There seemed to be the beleif that the methodology and the patterns were “universal” and there seem to me to be an erasure of individual differant experiences and personality styles.
I commented earlier that there was some positive in MKP. This occurred for me in the groups that eliminated bullying and coherisive methods and men did work soully on a voluntary basis. Their was mutual respect as for as how a man defined ones work too. And there was respect when a man said “stop” the work “stopped”. Or one could just talk and cry without “the work”.
Unforunately half the time I spent in MKP I experienced the latter. And the former seems to be in the minority. What I ultimatel determined is bucketing and carpet work is often not done for the benefit of the man on the carpet at all, but for the benefit of the group. That is to say many groups want to experience “a show” and want to participate vicariously through the man on the carpet.
I obviously have an ambivalent opinion of MKP. I think much good can come from a group of men who normalize the grieving process. But I also think that the individual and differences of subjective experience needs to be respected. I also must say I object to the “closed” dialogue on the rickross site who seems only to villanize MKP. I simply want to bring awareness to the dangers of the work in the hopes that MKP will some day minimize those dangers. And now that I am out of therapy, away from MKP, and have read a lot of psychology I feel I have a well informed opinion on the matter.
I’m concerned that the negative press by a few sour grapes, or the uninformed, misses the fact that MKP is a well intentioned organization. It is not, by definition, a cult because it’s aim is not to remove men from their lives — but, rather to assist men go further with their own life’s mission. What could be so awful about men supporting men to look at their childhood wounds and work on moving past them?
The article above is misleading (like so many others that prefer to write drama, rather than truth). No one in MKP encourages anyone to “kill” their parent (metaphorically or otherwise). Rather, the described process is designed to silence (or “kill”) a negative MESSAGE heard by the man from the parent (or whomever) that is being “killed” — so that the message may be replaced with something the child needed or wanted to hear at the time. It’s quite simple and effective. Participation in this exercise (and all MKP exercises) is always voluntary – and is one of many techniques available to men to use within their self-run support groups.
I would like to point out that their are multiple criteria that a group has to meet before being considerd a “cult”, not just one and that MKP falls into many of these categories.
The website http://www.freedomofmind.com has a FAQ page that is very helpful in understanding how to “rate” groups as well as a BITE model.
For example: A destructive cult is a pyramid-shaped authoritarian regime with a person or group of people that have dictatorial control. It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members). It also uses mind control techniques to keep people dependent and obedient.
I felt that the BITE model used on this site was very helpful to me in my situation, this model assisted me in understanding what was taking place in my life with my spouse.
Their are four basic components of the BITE model 1.Behavior Control 2. Information Control 3. Thought control 4. Emotional Control
For a full explanation of these go to the freedomofmind website.
The NWTA is full of all four of these criteria as well as in general throughout the organization. Does MKP 100% fill all the different criteria for the definition of a cult? No, but a group does not have to meet every single criteria to be considered harmful.
Eric also states “No one in MKP encourages anyone to “kill” their parent (metaphorically or otherwise).” In response I would like to share something my spouse said, these are his own words in regards to his weekend and his turn “on the carpet”. (I basically cussed out Dad for not being there for me emotionally, and I symbolically killed his dark side. The man role modeling my father’s dark side cussed me back, how I wasn’t worth his time, and slowly backed off the square carpet as I advanced..) This was very physical with lots of pushing, shoving, screaming, growling etc. during this procedure. From my understanding the physical exertion during this exercise was as intense as the emotional exertion.
[...] more manly. Recently sued for alleged culpability in a suicide, MKP uses rather odd methods to say the least. XGW has also reported on recent distortions by People Can [...]
Mindspring is related to the old EST trainings. Esalen is a legitimate and regular method of giving therapeutic massage. There is nothing cult like about this school. The school itself does not place as much emphasis on professional draping as most schools, and I dont necessarily like that. But its a regular school for massage regardless.
EST trainings and Mindspring has been categorized as cults. Several of the large men only manliness ‘trainings” have also been categorized as cults. Not sure if that is what you refer to.
Cults exist on a very wide spectrum as with many other groups. In fact – all groups use some of the techniques outlined in the BITE model – its the degree to which it is used, and the amount of them used that categorizes a group in the more destructive spectrum.
Cults are also known as “high control – high demand” groups. This is actually a much better descriptive name for those groups. It is also easier to make these distinctions without the emotionally charged cult label. How controlling and how demanding is the group?
Rander