When I was a ministry leader in Exodus, I was against the idea of a live in program. My memorable quote from some 30 years ago was : A halfway house for homosexuals is like a Teen Challenge with marijuana plants on the windowsills.

I still have a negative gut reaction to the forced bonding/nakedness rituals but I do concede that it could clear up some body misperceptions of some. My thinking is that a teenager who thinks he’s gay will likely do what I did in the locker room. Take a locker as far away from the others as I could; always try to face the other way; shower first, last or not at all; and, above all, never, ever be caught looking. The stress and trauma prevented casual looking or observation.

Next exposure to male full-frontal nakedness was pornography. So a guy starts thinking that everybody’s got ‘a big one’. Usually, their own falls short of the porn image so it lends to feelings of insecurity and envy. I can see that sitting around for hours, naked, with guys who don’t look like porn stars, would clear up those misconceptions effectively.

Some of the straight men likely have these misconceptions also. I’m wondering if the CockTalk (arrgghh, I’ve said it…) might be a reality version of Locker Room Talk…without the phony bravado, the bragging and the tales of prowess and conquests. How many men go through life not realizing that most of what they learned in the locker room was pure bull?

LOL! But I swear there’s gotta be a better way!

I also find it quite odd that a bunch of Exgay guys will call an exercise “Cocktalk” and sit around naked. That is sorta analogous to a group of acoholics holding an AA meeting in the local Pub.

I guess a question I have, is after all these “Exercises” are any of these poor souls any closer to be Str8, than they were prior to the naked campfire thing ?

Warren, it shows great desparation that you would even consider this. Funny how quickly you might discount same-sex marriage, even with both sound legal and moral arguments on the other side, etc..but a few naked men running around posing as therapy – THAT you give serious thought to?

Astonishing really.

OK

The intake process…and the exposure of Shadow.

No doubt my resentments during this time could be a completely reasonable reaction to a depriving and ambiguous situation. Dependency on Authority in ambiguous situations is often a very adaptive, highly socialized and reasonable skill to employ. At it was nearly completely frustrated during the intake process at NWTA.

What I found powerful, was how I had learned over the years to use dependency as a means of navigating such situations. I will elaborate later today, but it was powerful to learn that my first reaction, when frustrated repeatedly led to resentment and then awareness of my co-contribution…

Thanks again Warren, for being challenging.

Here is how my contextual mind works when I read that. Were those projections or were they reasonable reactions given the characteristics of the context? Given what the facilitators were doing, it would seem like an expected reaction in that circumstance. Here I am thinking of the Stanford Prison Experiment, and Milgram’s Teacher-Learner paradigm. The power of the situation was at work and created feelings and behaviors which go with being in those situations. The volunteers in the Stanford Prison Experiment were randomly assigned to conditions but the behavior was best predicted by their role in the situation – prisoner or guard. Prior to the event, the guards were not more violent or harsh and the prisoners were not more docile; the situation required a response and the participants largely played their role.

If one grows up in a manipulative and harsh situation and encounters it again, we could call that a projection or we could call it a reasonable response to being bullied and manipulated. It would seem to be a projection if these feelings came up in a benign, non-manipulative situation. If anything, it sounds like the NWTA deliberately creates a situation which is manipulative and provocative. It doesn’t surprise me that people react as they do. What is troubling are those reactions which could lead to worsening mental health. Not saying I know how often that happens, I don’t. NWTA people say it is infrequent; those who are troubled believe it to be more frequent.

David’s point about differentiating NWTA for masculinity issues and unwanted SSA is key. Whatever value NWTA might have, it does not make any theoretical sense to me why such interventions would address SSA, beyond placebo. Again, though, I am open to learning and listening so bring it on…

My impressions of the “cock talk” is that is what quite stunning to hear the stories of men who had been abused by priests or abused women or who had profound disappointments sexually and how this had stayed with them throughout their lives. It blew up the whole masculine myth of sexuality being largely a drive to be satisfied with no personal baggage associated with it.

The “naked trust walk” was particularly difficult, I remember how vulnerable I felt…a sense of vulnerability I had not experienced in years.

The whole intake process was very intense, specifically in my case it uncovered deep resentments of authority, distrust. It was so clear by the end of the weekend how my projections had distorted who the facilitators actually were. Very good, for me.

Thanks again, Warren, for providing this forum for this topic. Especially as it needs to be differentiated from therapy and treatment for unwanted SSA.

Probably this is true for alot of things like this, but it is not proposed as such.