Comments on: CNN to discuss APA task force today

By: APA sexual orientation task force report: Analysis — Warren Throckmorton

APA sexual orientation task force report: Analysis — Warren Throckmorton — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:03:06 +0000

[...] On this blog, we have frequently grappled with these differences. Many such discussions have sides talking past each other because different views of congruence are assumed to be determinative. In this CNN clip about the Task Force, Psychiatrist McCommon and I came to about the same conclusion regarding congruence. [...]

By: Warren

Warren — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:22:16 +0000

Timothy – You nailed it. I would do that if that is what the client wanted to do. Until then, I would simply do what therapists do in circumstances where values are unclear. Give the best information I can and help the person sort through things.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:35:08 +0000

A big part of the problem is that something that is normal in humans – homosexuality – is sought to be denied/suppressed in order to fit or ‘uphold’ the norm – heterosexuality. Honestly now… should not the need to dispute a normal part of human life and even suppress it be seen as a mental disorder?

YIKES!!! Now where are we going with that?

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:31:52 +0000

The segment made you both look like very similar people…only one believed that somehow that choosing religion as their “core” value might change someone’s sexual preferences….

sadly, it doesn’t.

Jag,

I don’t think Warren is claiming that choosing religion changes orientation. I think he would argue, instead, that values based therapy can change behavior and provide contentment and satisfaction.

In other words, he would help a client with same-sex attraction find a way to craft a satisfying life that reflected their religious and moral values – whether or not there was any diminishment or change in same-sex attractions.

By: Ann

Ann — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:44:20 +0000

Jag,

I don’t think changing sexual preference is the issue – rather how to be in congruence with that which you hold as your core values. It is a personal thing. That goes for all issues, which I believe we everyone is prone to at some time or another in our lives.

By: Ann

Ann — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:15:42 +0000

Gordo,

Your answers seemed extreme compared to the simple question I asked. If I want to explore ways to have my behaviors be in congruence with my individual faith and belief, what is the matter with me going to see someone like Dr. Throckmorton for help? Why is it anyone else’s business to comment on? Also, regarding the mutilation theory, do you hold the same standard for those doctors who participate in sex re-assignment surgery?

By: jag

jag — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:30:39 +0000

The segment made you both look like very similar people…only one believed that somehow that choosing religion as their “core” value might change someone’s sexual preferences….

sadly, it doesn’t.

There are many people who choose religion as their core value who are gay. Gay christians are out there…and churches who support them. Why align yourself with intolerance? In the end Warren, you’re going to be on the wrong side of history…

along with those who thought that the Bible supported slavery…and that those of different races should not marry.

By: gordo

gordo — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:43:50 +0000

Does it really matter what a therapist or religious leader or anyone else for that matter believes or thinks if this is what the person seeking help wants?

Does it matter if thousands of people fly off to Guyana to drink poison koolaid?

I may sincerely believe that God wants me to mutilate myself, but that doesn’t make it ok for a therapist or religious leader to lend me a razor blade.

The faulty assumption is that any personal or religious belief is legitimate.

Many people on this board can demonstrate that a change in religious belief is possible. I used to believe the Bible. Now I don’t. I can tell you how change is possible if you’re interested.

Timothy and Michael used to believe that homosexuality was sin. Now they don’t. I’m sure they’d be happy to help you.

Why spend years of effort and thousands of dollars pursuing a change that will not happen at the expense of change that demonstrably can?

By: Ann

Ann — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:35:01 +0000

interesting but not too popular to realize that some people hold different values than others and are asking for help in exploring congruence of their behavior with those religious beliefs and values. Does it really matter what a therapist or religious leader or anyone else for that matter believes or thinks if this is what the person seeking help wants?

By: Drowssap

Drowssap — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:54:22 +0000

Good job Warren! That 5 minute piece can be boiled down to just two statements. Benjamin McCommon: "I would be interested in exploring with the patient why it is they want to do so, and seeing if it might be possible to help them find ways to lead a life that's more in congruence with their sexual orientation." Warren Throckmorton: "Clearly, some people feel that the most core aspect of them is their sexuality. Others, on the other hand, believe that their religious values and religious beliefs are most core, and they would rather explore congruence of their behavior with those beliefs and values."