Comments on: Montel Williams, Dr. Salzer and Abomination http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/ A College Psychology Professor's Observations About Public Policy, Mental Health, Sexual Identity, and Religious Issues Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:30:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Therapy or not Therapy? « An Exercise in the Fundamentals of Orthodoxy http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-351476 Therapy or not Therapy? « An Exercise in the Fundamentals of Orthodoxy Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:29:04 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-351476 [...] that led to this paper and an associated conference) points out though, this selective reporting fails to express what this research actually showed. In fact, Drs. Shidlo and Schroeder were very clear about this [...] [...] that led to this paper and an associated conference) points out though, this selective reporting fails to express what this research actually showed. In fact, Drs. Shidlo and Schroeder were very clear about this [...]

]]> By: Reports of adverse reactions to abortion: How should mental health professional groups respond? — Warren Throckmorton http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117235 Reports of adverse reactions to abortion: How should mental health professional groups respond? — Warren Throckmorton Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:32:42 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-117235 [...] reactions by Ariel Shidlo and Michael Shroeder took 5 years to solicit nearly 200 reports of various types of harm. In addition to this study, groups representing glbt people have met with and requested assistance [...] [...] reactions by Ariel Shidlo and Michael Shroeder took 5 years to solicit nearly 200 reports of various types of harm. In addition to this study, groups representing glbt people have met with and requested assistance [...]

]]> By: American Psychiatric Association to host symposium on religion, therapy and homosexuality — Warren Throckmorton http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-88555 American Psychiatric Association to host symposium on religion, therapy and homosexuality — Warren Throckmorton Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:17:10 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-88555 [...] reluctantly listen. By the same token, when Dr. Throckmorton states that an assertion in our film [Abomination] is not supported by the data, AGLP ignores him. But if someone from AGLP makes that assertion…I [...] [...] reluctantly listen. By the same token, when Dr. Throckmorton states that an assertion in our film [Abomination] is not supported by the data, AGLP ignores him. But if someone from AGLP makes that assertion…I [...]

]]> By: Warren Throckmorton » Blog Archive » Year in review: Top Ten Stories from 2007 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-77490 Warren Throckmorton » Blog Archive » Year in review: Top Ten Stories from 2007 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:58:48 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-77490 [...] controversy. On the show, psychiatrist Alicia Salzar falsely claimed that science has shown that 96% of people attempting to change orientation cannot do so and experience harm. Her claim was based on a study, [...] [...] controversy. On the show, psychiatrist Alicia Salzar falsely claimed that science has shown that 96% of people attempting to change orientation cannot do so and experience harm. Her claim was based on a study, [...]

]]> By: Warren Throckmorton » Blog Archive » PFLAG reaction to the Chicago Trib article http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-31883 Warren Throckmorton » Blog Archive » PFLAG reaction to the Chicago Trib article Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:27:53 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-31883 [...] have written about the misuse of Shidlo and Schroeder before in relation to its reference on the Montel Williams Show by Alicia Salzer. Digg [...] [...] have written about the misuse of Shidlo and Schroeder before in relation to its reference on the Montel Williams Show by Alicia Salzer. Digg [...]

]]> By: Box Turtle Bulletin » Blog Archive » An Example of Distorted Science From The Pro-Gay Viewpoint http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-18976 Box Turtle Bulletin » Blog Archive » An Example of Distorted Science From The Pro-Gay Viewpoint Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:47:02 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-18976 [...] activists aren’t the only ones doing this. Warren Throckmorton was disturbed by a “scientific” statistic presented by Dr. Alicia Salzar on the March [...] [...] activists aren’t the only ones doing this. Warren Throckmorton was disturbed by a “scientific” statistic presented by Dr. Alicia Salzar on the March [...]

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-18758 Timothy Kincaid Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:25:20 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-18758 Lynn, I suspect that an ex-gay ministry would say that acquiring heterosexual inappropriate sexual behavior is hardly their goal. But yet, if one purports to be creating (or refinding or healing or whatever) some sizable number of heterosexuals, one would expect them to from time to time result in one or two that actually behave like heterosexuals, including inappropriate heterosexual lusting or even affairs. While this in certainly not a goal we would have anyone shoot for, I'm not sure the dread of heterosexual sex that is so often expressed in the ex-gay community (eg. Mike Ensley) hardly serves as testimony for the "heterosexualness" of the participant. Lynn,

I suspect that an ex-gay ministry would say that acquiring heterosexual inappropriate sexual behavior is hardly their goal.

But yet, if one purports to be creating (or refinding or healing or whatever) some sizable number of heterosexuals, one would expect them to from time to time result in one or two that actually behave like heterosexuals, including inappropriate heterosexual lusting or even affairs. While this in certainly not a goal we would have anyone shoot for, I’m not sure the dread of heterosexual sex that is so often expressed in the ex-gay community (eg. Mike Ensley) hardly serves as testimony for the “heterosexualness” of the participant.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-18757 Timothy Kincaid Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:19:53 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-18757 Karen, <i>In your first part, do you mean “all parties who are therapists?” Or “modern theraputic methods?” I agree with you if you’re referring to the Spitzer study upon which Salzar based her claims. I’m not convinced that can be universalized.</i> I'm referring to the fact that to date I have counted three ex-gay men who claim to have once been solely attracted to the same sex and now are solely attracted to the opposite sex - in the same manner as someone who lived their entire life as heterosexual. Three is not a sizeable portion of same-sex attracted persons. I think that you will agree with me that SO FAR there have not been any methodologies, be they theraputic or faith-based, which have <b>demonstrated</b> any sizeable portion of same-sex attracted persons whose <b>attractions</b> have gone from being solely same-sex directed to being solely opposite-sex directed. Wouldn't you agree? Karen,

In your first part, do you mean “all parties who are therapists?” Or “modern theraputic methods?”

I agree with you if you’re referring to the Spitzer study upon which Salzar based her claims. I’m not convinced that can be universalized.

I’m referring to the fact that to date I have counted three ex-gay men who claim to have once been solely attracted to the same sex and now are solely attracted to the opposite sex – in the same manner as someone who lived their entire life as heterosexual.

Three is not a sizeable portion of same-sex attracted persons.

I think that you will agree with me that SO FAR there have not been any methodologies, be they theraputic or faith-based, which have demonstrated any sizeable portion of same-sex attracted persons whose attractions have gone from being solely same-sex directed to being solely opposite-sex directed.

Wouldn’t you agree?

]]> By: gordo http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-18730 gordo Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:42:17 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-18730 <i>And JAG, one of the conclusions from the Spitzer study (at least from my pespective) is that change IS possible. Not guaranteed, or even necessarily common, but possible. If that’s communicated well, I don’t see how it hurts anyone. I don’t intend to change it on my website.</i> State lotteries post the odds of winning the big jackpot. I would hope the ministries would do no less. And JAG, one of the conclusions from the Spitzer study (at least from my pespective) is that change IS possible. Not guaranteed, or even necessarily common, but possible. If that’s communicated well, I don’t see how it hurts anyone. I don’t intend to change it on my website.

State lotteries post the odds of winning the big jackpot. I would hope the ministries would do no less.

]]> By: Lynn David http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/comment-page-1/#comment-18729 Lynn David Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:39:17 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/24/montel-williams-dr-salzer-and-abomination/#comment-18729 Timothy Kincaid wrote: "<i>But I think that we do all agree that very very few people (if any) go from being solely same-sex attracted persons to being solely opposite-sex attracted persons.</i>" Can we be sure that even those pesons achieve a complete heterosexual orientation? Have we ever heard of such a person (more specifically the men) in an adulterous relationship with another woman? Or do any of these persons report having a wondering eye as concerns the opposite sex? Any of them pulling a Jimmy Carter - lusting in their heart for another of the opposite sex? Is entering into a marriage proof of a change in sexual orientation? I've known of many a gay man who entered into a marriage from my era and eventually leave. What is changed, simple behavior, or the reality the person must live within? Timothy Kincaid wrote: “But I think that we do all agree that very very few people (if any) go from being solely same-sex attracted persons to being solely opposite-sex attracted persons.”

Can we be sure that even those pesons achieve a complete heterosexual orientation? Have we ever heard of such a person (more specifically the men) in an adulterous relationship with another woman? Or do any of these persons report having a wondering eye as concerns the opposite sex? Any of them pulling a Jimmy Carter – lusting in their heart for another of the opposite sex?

Is entering into a marriage proof of a change in sexual orientation? I’ve known of many a gay man who entered into a marriage from my era and eventually leave.

What is changed, simple behavior, or the reality the person must live within?

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