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	<title>
	Comments on: Montel Williams Show on sexual reorientation	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Anon		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4131</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4131</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[David,



Given the way English is normally used, if you mention three different groups or people together, say that they are all wrong about something, and don&#039;t specify further, it does imply that they agree. Still, I&#039;m relieved to see that this was nothing more than sloppy use of language on Mike&#039;s part.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Given the way English is normally used, if you mention three different groups or people together, say that they are all wrong about something, and don&#8217;t specify further, it does imply that they agree. Still, I&#8217;m relieved to see that this was nothing more than sloppy use of language on Mike&#8217;s part.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4130</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4130</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Karen for detailing your thoughts in that way.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Karen for detailing your thoughts in that way.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4129</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4129</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;In another post, Timothy expressed sadness over the fact that we might not achieve common understanding. The reality is, I donâ€™t think we ever will. Our worldviews are incompatible. (And I used to be on the â€œpro-gayâ€ side, so I know this firsthand.) The other reality is, within public and Church spheres we will probably be adversaries.&lt;/i&gt;



Yes, it is sad that you have assigned my as your enemy.  And I know that your worldview does not allow for any reconsideration of your predetermined views so there&#039;s nothing I or anyone can say.  I&#039;ll just pray.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In another post, Timothy expressed sadness over the fact that we might not achieve common understanding. The reality is, I donâ€™t think we ever will. Our worldviews are incompatible. (And I used to be on the â€œpro-gayâ€ side, so I know this firsthand.) The other reality is, within public and Church spheres we will probably be adversaries.</i></p>
<p>Yes, it is sad that you have assigned my as your enemy.  And I know that your worldview does not allow for any reconsideration of your predetermined views so there&#8217;s nothing I or anyone can say.  I&#8217;ll just pray.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4128</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4128</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Karen -- you gave me a good, old-fashioned belly laugh with this one:  &quot; I have a tendency sometimes to act like a grackle â€“ one of those noisy blackbirds that puffs up and screams at the other birds.&quot;



Wow.   You could have been describing me!  I have to admit that I have definite unwanted GLT -- &quot;grackle-like tendencies&quot;.  Like you,  I also sincerely want to model something different.  Thanks again for the big smile.  Hope you have a great day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen &#8212; you gave me a good, old-fashioned belly laugh with this one:  &#8221; I have a tendency sometimes to act like a grackle â€“ one of those noisy blackbirds that puffs up and screams at the other birds.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow.   You could have been describing me!  I have to admit that I have definite unwanted GLT &#8212; &#8220;grackle-like tendencies&#8221;.  Like you,  I also sincerely want to model something different.  Thanks again for the big smile.  Hope you have a great day.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Booth		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Booth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/03/15/montel-williams-show-on-sexual-reorientation/#comment-4127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Below are my answers to questions about my eBay auction protest and my public apology to Mike Jones. I&#039;m only posting it here on this blog. Feel free to link to it, but please don&#039;t just do snippets.



I&#039;ll be out of town for the next three days and won&#039;t have access to the Internet or my email. And I also do really want to move on from this.



Here goes ...



1. Why did I issue an apology, and why publicly?



Thatâ€™s what Christians do â€“ or at least try to do. Not just apologize, but ask for forgiveness. And not just ask for forgiveness, but repent â€“ meaning feel remorse and turn from the sinful behavior. I have a tendency sometimes to act like a grackle â€“ one of those noisy blackbirds that puffs up and screams at the other birds. I sincerely want to model something different.



I apologized publicly because I think I owed that to Mike Jones. I scorned and belittled him publicly; I needed to deal with that publicly.



2. Wasnâ€™t I just seeking media attention and notoriety for myself and the ministry I serve?



No. As other folk have posted, Transforming Congregations and I have been blindspots up to this point, not on anyoneâ€™s radar screen. And thatâ€™s been intentional. Not because weâ€™re doing anything underhanded â€“ who we are, what we stand for and what we do are all out there on our website and in our printed materials. But we donâ€™t seek or desire media attention. I foolishly didnâ€™t consider the eBay protest would be newsworthy. (And outside of Colorado and some ex-gay and gay blogs, it hasnâ€™t been.) What I hoped would happen â€“ that the massage table would just get out of the public eye â€“ backfired. Chalk that up to my inexperience with the media.



Why am I â€œsuddenlyâ€ appearing on the blogs? Thereâ€™s an easy answer to that. I had a break in my travel schedule and have been home for a few weeks. I have time and the topics interested me. Iâ€™ve â€œlurkedâ€ on Dr. Throckmortonâ€™s blog for a long time, but never had the nerve to post much before. That will probably change when travel picks up again in April.



3. What about Project Angel Heart?



I believe project Angel Heart and other similar organizations should be supported. I still donâ€™t think Mikeâ€™s auction is the way to do it. I thought about bidding on the table myself, but my motivation wouldnâ€™t have been for charitable purposes and I donâ€™t have $1200 (the original high bid at time of cancellation) in disposable income. In contacting eBay, several of our ministry supporters indicated they would make donations to Project Angel Heart, but I donâ€™t know if they followed through or not. That kind of ministry is not the focus of Transforming Congregations, so it wasnâ€™t appropriate to make a donation from our supporterâ€™s contributions.



4. Why didnâ€™t I protest the re-listing?



As stated above, because my first protest didnâ€™t accomplish what Iâ€™d hoped â€“ to get the massage table out of the public eye. Some of the Colorado media indicated they would spin a re-listing protest into a personal battle between me and Mike. I wonâ€™t participate in that. Though I acknowledge that I have treated Mike disrespectfully, my beef was with the auction itself and with eBay, not with him.



Will I personally boycott eBay as I threatened to do? How does that old saying go? The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Especially around Christmas time.



5. Arenâ€™t I just a mean old ex-lesbian?



Iâ€™m truly taken aback by the depth of anger and hatred that has driven some peopleâ€™s responses to me and my actions. The overwhelming majority of vile emails came from men connected to another blog site (not Ex-Gay Watch.) Most surprising of all (because I thought it was a stereotype) was their utter contempt for women, especially lesbians.  Iâ€™m also sorry folk have painted all evangelicals or all Christians with the same broad brush stroke because of my personal transgressions. That kind of generalization, labeling and name-calling really troubles me â€“ even though I sometimes do it myself.



I canâ€™t begin to understand all the â€œwhysâ€ and â€œhowsâ€ of it, though discussion on Dr. Throckmortonâ€™s blog has helped.  But I imagine part of the intensity is due to continued fallout from the Haggard affair â€“ aftershocks from his sin, his lies and duplicity. I deplore his actions. But my heart still breaks for the man, his family, and all the other lives that have been harmed by what he did. And while my heart also breaks for Mike Jones, I also deplore his actions â€“ both then and now. To me, they are far from heroic.



In another post, Timothy expressed sadness over the fact that we might not achieve common understanding. The reality is, I donâ€™t think we ever will. Our worldviews are incompatible. (And I used to be on the â€œpro-gayâ€ side, so I know this firsthand.) The other reality is, within public and Church spheres we will probably be adversaries. Obviously, I donâ€™t always live up to Jesusâ€™ command to â€œlove your enemies.â€ I will personally try to do better in the future, and you all have my permission to call me on it if I am disrespectful again. But many of the questioners are still asking me to defend my ministry, and that I will not do. I believe itâ€™s loving; some of you donâ€™t. Weâ€™re not going to find common ground on that, either.



6. Finally, regarding my picture, my looks, and my sexual preferences â€¦ really guys, I absolutely DO NOT wear Birkenstocks! Never have. Never will.



In the spirit of further understanding and respect â€¦ Karen



&quot;Thinking I&#039;m a moron gives people something to feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?&quot; -- Charles Wallace in A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L&#039;Engle]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Below are my answers to questions about my eBay auction protest and my public apology to Mike Jones. I&#8217;m only posting it here on this blog. Feel free to link to it, but please don&#8217;t just do snippets.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be out of town for the next three days and won&#8217;t have access to the Internet or my email. And I also do really want to move on from this.</p>
<p>Here goes &#8230;</p>
<p>1. Why did I issue an apology, and why publicly?</p>
<p>Thatâ€™s what Christians do â€“ or at least try to do. Not just apologize, but ask for forgiveness. And not just ask for forgiveness, but repent â€“ meaning feel remorse and turn from the sinful behavior. I have a tendency sometimes to act like a grackle â€“ one of those noisy blackbirds that puffs up and screams at the other birds. I sincerely want to model something different.</p>
<p>I apologized publicly because I think I owed that to Mike Jones. I scorned and belittled him publicly; I needed to deal with that publicly.</p>
<p>2. Wasnâ€™t I just seeking media attention and notoriety for myself and the ministry I serve?</p>
<p>No. As other folk have posted, Transforming Congregations and I have been blindspots up to this point, not on anyoneâ€™s radar screen. And thatâ€™s been intentional. Not because weâ€™re doing anything underhanded â€“ who we are, what we stand for and what we do are all out there on our website and in our printed materials. But we donâ€™t seek or desire media attention. I foolishly didnâ€™t consider the eBay protest would be newsworthy. (And outside of Colorado and some ex-gay and gay blogs, it hasnâ€™t been.) What I hoped would happen â€“ that the massage table would just get out of the public eye â€“ backfired. Chalk that up to my inexperience with the media.</p>
<p>Why am I â€œsuddenlyâ€ appearing on the blogs? Thereâ€™s an easy answer to that. I had a break in my travel schedule and have been home for a few weeks. I have time and the topics interested me. Iâ€™ve â€œlurkedâ€ on Dr. Throckmortonâ€™s blog for a long time, but never had the nerve to post much before. That will probably change when travel picks up again in April.</p>
<p>3. What about Project Angel Heart?</p>
<p>I believe project Angel Heart and other similar organizations should be supported. I still donâ€™t think Mikeâ€™s auction is the way to do it. I thought about bidding on the table myself, but my motivation wouldnâ€™t have been for charitable purposes and I donâ€™t have $1200 (the original high bid at time of cancellation) in disposable income. In contacting eBay, several of our ministry supporters indicated they would make donations to Project Angel Heart, but I donâ€™t know if they followed through or not. That kind of ministry is not the focus of Transforming Congregations, so it wasnâ€™t appropriate to make a donation from our supporterâ€™s contributions.</p>
<p>4. Why didnâ€™t I protest the re-listing?</p>
<p>As stated above, because my first protest didnâ€™t accomplish what Iâ€™d hoped â€“ to get the massage table out of the public eye. Some of the Colorado media indicated they would spin a re-listing protest into a personal battle between me and Mike. I wonâ€™t participate in that. Though I acknowledge that I have treated Mike disrespectfully, my beef was with the auction itself and with eBay, not with him.</p>
<p>Will I personally boycott eBay as I threatened to do? How does that old saying go? The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Especially around Christmas time.</p>
<p>5. Arenâ€™t I just a mean old ex-lesbian?</p>
<p>Iâ€™m truly taken aback by the depth of anger and hatred that has driven some peopleâ€™s responses to me and my actions. The overwhelming majority of vile emails came from men connected to another blog site (not Ex-Gay Watch.) Most surprising of all (because I thought it was a stereotype) was their utter contempt for women, especially lesbians.  Iâ€™m also sorry folk have painted all evangelicals or all Christians with the same broad brush stroke because of my personal transgressions. That kind of generalization, labeling and name-calling really troubles me â€“ even though I sometimes do it myself.</p>
<p>I canâ€™t begin to understand all the â€œwhysâ€ and â€œhowsâ€ of it, though discussion on Dr. Throckmortonâ€™s blog has helped.  But I imagine part of the intensity is due to continued fallout from the Haggard affair â€“ aftershocks from his sin, his lies and duplicity. I deplore his actions. But my heart still breaks for the man, his family, and all the other lives that have been harmed by what he did. And while my heart also breaks for Mike Jones, I also deplore his actions â€“ both then and now. To me, they are far from heroic.</p>
<p>In another post, Timothy expressed sadness over the fact that we might not achieve common understanding. The reality is, I donâ€™t think we ever will. Our worldviews are incompatible. (And I used to be on the â€œpro-gayâ€ side, so I know this firsthand.) The other reality is, within public and Church spheres we will probably be adversaries. Obviously, I donâ€™t always live up to Jesusâ€™ command to â€œlove your enemies.â€ I will personally try to do better in the future, and you all have my permission to call me on it if I am disrespectful again. But many of the questioners are still asking me to defend my ministry, and that I will not do. I believe itâ€™s loving; some of you donâ€™t. Weâ€™re not going to find common ground on that, either.</p>
<p>6. Finally, regarding my picture, my looks, and my sexual preferences â€¦ really guys, I absolutely DO NOT wear Birkenstocks! Never have. Never will.</p>
<p>In the spirit of further understanding and respect â€¦ Karen</p>
<p>&#8220;Thinking I&#8217;m a moron gives people something to feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?&#8221; &#8212; Charles Wallace in A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L&#8217;Engle</p>
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