Even outside of such events, I do not see christian leading the way to loving those with same-sex attractions – lobbying for their basic rights in employment, housing, supporting hate-crimes legislation, or welcoming them into their churches. Remember the “controversial” tv commercial by UCC that says that “all are welcome here.”

why so controversial to welcome everyone?

As long as christians are represented in the media by everyone from the most prominent Christian organizations – Dobson (distorting research), Haggard (who represents many ministers/politicians against gays/lesbians until they are discovered themselves), etc…to your local church who is unwelcoming…

Who wants to follow THAT example?

The church needs to return to its roots, and to its philosophy. Love is not name-calling….and the church has behaved shamefully.

I thought we were discussing why anti-gay conservatives are often considered hateful. I’m not at all certain how your response relates.

Nonetheless, I do want to address it because I think it’s important.

I, for one, do not claim that a person “cannot change”. Nor would I suggest that this be the response of a counselor. However, I do believe that the counselor has an obligation to tell the truth.

And the truth is that if sexual orientation can be changed (and by that I mean that a person can become attracted to the opposite sex and lose all attraction to the same sex), then this occurance is very rare. Very very rare and a very long process.

If the patient wants to continue with efforts to find tools to live a life that is consistent with their values and to hope for such a change – or enough of a change in their attractions, I’ve no problem. They’ve been informed and know that the expected outcome may not be what they ultimately would wish for.

I would not, however, want a counselor to validate someone’s wishes if those wishes flew in the face of what little is known about the subject. Even if honesty did not encourage the effort, a lack of honesty would in the long run destroy the effort and the credibility of the counselor.

Don’t you agree?

That’s not the fault of pro-gay activists. It’s the fault of the Christian church, particulalrly the extreme right-wing, hypocritical and morally “superior” branch of Christianity. If the world thinks that Christians hate gays, that is due entirely to the failure of the Christian church to present a more loving response.
Scripture says, “You will know that they are Christians by their love” — and when it comes to the gay issue, real love has been in very short supply. Gays have every right to doubt the “love” of many so-called Christians. Quit blaming activists or the media for the dismal failure of Christ’s church.

Totally agree with your point that the media is attempting to pit one side against the other with neither having adequate representation…all to a largely ignorant viewership.

wow, no bias there, eh Daniel?

“militant” “indoctrinating”….who has been braishwashed?

What has been occurring is what occurs with every civil rights movement – education. As more people learn about what being gay/lesbian means, less people are willing to actively discriminate against their brothers and sisters. It is still sadly true that in most areas of the united states, you can lose your housing and even your job JUST for being gay…how ridiculous. Even if you believe being gay is a “sin,” we don’t fire individuals or evict them for sinning – we are all sinners, aren’t we?

I don’t believe that being gay/lesbian is a sin anyway.

The problem is, it seems you have been “indoctrinated” about what it means to be gay. Gay sexuality is as varied as straight sexuality. Almost every act you can think of in gay relationships (male or female) happens in straight ones too…and not everyone engages in the same acts.

At my place of employment, I have a gay colleague to my left (who’s been with his partner for 22 years) and a lesbian colleague across the hall (partnered for 16 years). Is this the “gay sexuality” you are so afraid of? It certainly seems to be the one underrepresented in the media.

But let’s not judge all people by just a few. We don’t say all heterosexual men are Fraternity Boys, and not all gay men are club guys. Let’s stop with the stereotypes…it just looks…well, uninformed.

Anon2, ponder with me for a moment if you will.

Suppose there was someone who decided that they did not like, say, your religion. And suppose also that your religion, whatever it is, was in the minority.

Then suppose they tried to use their disapproval of your faith as a reason to deny you housing or a job, as justification for denying you access to your children, as a reason to call for denying you health insurance, as an election issue to deny marriage to those of your religion, and they set about telling everyone how evil your religion is and that you are a horrible influence and do a whole litany of terrible things and they sought to jail you for your religion.

Even if their purpose was benign – or even noble – that is not how it would feel to you. They may be trying to save your soul, but you would think them hateful, spiteful, mean, and oppresive. And I certainly wouldn’t fault you for doing so.

Now though I placed this in the theoretical, the above scenario has been true in many times and places. Catholic in protestant countries, Protestants in Catholic countries, Jews in both, and everyone else in Moslem countries.

And it is also true that these things are what the most vocal of evangelicals and Conservatives seek to do to gay people. “Christians should not be forced to hire, rent to, accept…we need to protect the family from…the radical militant homosexuals are…etc.” I’m sure you’ve heard it too.

Perhaps when you make these political forrays into people’s lives, you don’t do so out of hatred. Perhaps you do so out of care for the soul. But sometimes it can feel pretty hateful either way to the person experiencing it.

Just curious. Just what do you think is “typical”? And where do you get your information?