Sexual identity model discussion: Values vs. change

There is an interesting discussion going on at ExGayWatch about an op-ed (A Valued Life) I posted elsewhere. Another article posted on my website is called Why Do I Have These Feelings? This piece is similar to a previous blog post but takes a different approach to the question. These two articles attempt to flesh out in a column format some of my thinking regarding ways to think about and respond to sexual identity conflict.

12 thoughts on “Sexual identity model discussion: Values vs. change”

  1. Warren,

    I looked at the student organizations for Grove City. There don’t appear to be any gay student organizations. If students attempted to form such an organization would you publically support it (personally as a faculty member and/or professionally as a campus counselor)? Further, would you have any concerns of administrative reprisals for doing so?

  2. To my knowledge there are no rules about dating of any kind. But if you are asking a policy question, or a “what if,” I would have to defer to the school admin. One thing I cannot do is speak for the school.

  3. Warren –

    My comment was more of an inquiry as to whether you would be allowed to “date” a person of the same-sex on Grove City Campus…as those who are heterosexual are allowed to do.

    Would you be allowed to be “congruent” with yourself if you were gay as someone would be if straight?

    I would hope you would have the freedom, in academics, to show leadership here. What a great opportunity for discussion…

  4. Grove City College has no policy on dating that I know about. Students are not allowed to engage in sexual behavior of any kind in the dorms or on campus so there is no distinction.

  5. Warren –

    Care to follow-up on this (in above post):

    “Warren, I am happy to hear that you find that therapy is about “congruence, not change.” My impression from earlier videos you had released did not give that impression – this seems to be evolution nonetheless…and one I am pleased with. By giving even the impression that change is possible for everyone, it leaves many who hope for change feeling more hopeless than they felt prior to starting “treatment.” Especially at a place such as the one you teach at – which would seem to give the impression that being gay is not acceptable.

    What is Grove City College policy on same-sex dating? Is it the same as for opposite-sexed couples? Does it reflect your more progressive values of being consistent with self under God?”

  6. Michael –

    I agree with your statements regarding “change”…

    “Regarding “change”, I would again respect the client’s choice. That said, I feel that it is my duty to let the client know: (1) That I can help him make better choices about his behavior, but that orientation tends to be very persistent, (2) That there is no good evidence to support “change” therapies, (3) That such therapies may actually do harm, (4) That I do not know how to help a gay client become straight and (5) That I don’t know of a therapist who does.”

    However, I’m fairly certain the gentleman you defend in earlier comments is competent enough to defend himself.

    Warren, I am happy to hear that you find that therapy is about “congruence, not change.” My impression from earlier videos you had released did not give that impression – this seems to be evolution nonetheless…and one I am pleased with. By giving even the impression that change is possible for everyone, it leaves many who hope for change feeling more hopeless than they felt prior to starting “treatment.” Especially at a place such as the one you teach at – which would seem to give the impression that being gay is not acceptable.

    What is Grove City College policy on same-sex dating? Is it the same as for opposite-sexed couples? Does it reflect your more progressive values of being consistent with self under God?

  7. Just to be clear, as a therapist, I do “value those who choose celibacy or attempt to change”. I may not share the same beliefs, but I value the person and the person’s right to self-determination.

    Regarding celibacy, I could help a client do that for “now” — but I’m not sure I would know how to help a client be celibate for a lifetime — except to continue to respect his choice.

    Regarding “change”, I would again respect the client’s choice. That said, I feel that it is my duty to let the client know: (1) That I can help him make better choices about his behavior, but that orientation tends to be very persistent, (2) That there is no good evidence to support “change” therapies, (3) That such therapies may actually do harm, (4) That I do not know how to help a gay client become straight and (5) That I don’t know of a therapist who does.

  8. Thanks, Michael and indeed you are correct. Part of why we developed the guidelines was for this purpose. We believe that some gay therapists do not value those who choose celibacy or attempt to change and we believe that some religious therapists may not convey respect for different views about sexuality. When services are ideologically driven, then the potential for poor services increases.

  9. JAG said: “If he would have had a therapist worth his salt, he would have been informed that he could lead a happy and fulfilled life with another man – if he so chose to.”

    I think Warren is a therapist worth his salt. I believe that Warren might very well point out to a client that it is possible to have a “valued” and satisfying gay life. I know he respects the fact that I have such a life — even though we disagree on what the Bible has to say about it.

  10. A valued life = a life valued by the person.

    I am not referring to a valuable life with this title. The juxtaposition is to a changed life or as I end the piece, a perfect one. Jim thought of perfection as being congruent in his romantic and sexual desires but he has settled into a situation that he and his wife both value.

    You used to seem to advocate that change was possible for all…and now, you seem a bit more hesitant in making such a statement.

    I am thinking back and I cannot think of anytime where I have written I believe change was possible for all. I have always been hesitant to make that statement – in fact I cannot remember ever making it.

    I emphasized the reality of change for some because I believed that they were not being taken seriously. I still believe some degree of modification occurs. I believe it occurs from straight to gay and the other way around but I have come to the position that therapy should be about congruence and not change for a host of reasons we outline in the sexual identity therapy guidelines. Some people may pursue change but I hope they find a therapist that uses our framework. I believe (and hope that research will continue to support us in this) that the potential negative side effects are addressed by our model.

  11. “A valued life,” was an interesting title choice. I wonder if the title would have been the same if he would have decided to pursue (what he believed to be after discussion) a more authentic life in a relationship with another man?

    This was particularly agregious:

    “Instead of focusing on why he had the feelings or what was wrong with him, his counselor helped him pursue living a valued life.”

    If he would have had a therapist worth his salt, he would have been informed that he could lead a happy and fulfilled life with another man – if he so chose to. That there are communities of faith that would welcome him. Truth is, it seems Jim never felt he had a choice.

    These things might have at least have been reviewed. If he had spent some time discussing this, and came to the conclusion that he wished to stay with his wife, or continue in his marriage, then that makes the therapy seem well-thought-out…and frankly, more professional.

    As an aside, it seems an interesting position to be the wife of a man who is consistently attracted to other men. I’d love to read a follow-up.

    I do appreciate the perspective, however, that sexuality is as of yet, undetermined in origin…and therapists should be cautious to promise any hope of change.

    Like exgaywatch, I do see a change in perspective from you Warren. You used to seem to advocate that change was possible for all…and now, you seem a bit more hesitant in making such a statement.

    Changing sexuality seems an unbelievably difficult/near impossible task. What would it take to make a straight man gay? I suppose it could be done…maybe?

Comments are closed.